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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clarification: Ordnance and Leaders spotting rss

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Ken Shin
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1. Ordnance and Smoke just needs range (but not LOS) to target an enemy. [O20.2 and O20.2.1 don't mention LOS]

2. Leaders doing Fire for Effect Action [O18.2] just needs LOS, but not range [O18.2.1 doesn't mention range]

3. Also in "T88.3.2 Vertical LOS grey box" states that the LOS starting from unit A must cross a Crest Line before crossing a hexside in order to have LOS into unit B.

I'm wondering if the hexside that's referred to above is your own hexside in where your unit is firing from or the adjacent hexside? If it's your own hexside then that must mean that in order to have LOS to another elevation you must fire from a hex that contains a Crest Line, no?
 
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David desJardins
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1. Of course you need LOS to fire at a target.

10.1 Generally, a unit in one hex must be able to "see" a unit in another hex in order to fire at it.

20.3 Each piece that is activated to Fire may take one shot at any hex within both its Range and LOS.


2. I'm not sure what you mean by "Leaders just needs LOS, but just range". There is no maximum range when spotting for artillery, but the range does affect the targeting roll.

O18.2.2 Once the SR has been placed, make a normal Targeting Roll [O20.2.3] using the range between the Spotter and the SR’s current hex.

3. You can only have LOS to a lower elevation if you are in a crest hex. That's stated very clearly in T88.3.2 (bearing in mind that LOS is reciprocal).

T88.3.2 A unit may only trace a LOS into the initial Crest hex of each elevation above it.
 
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Ken Shin
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DaviddesJ wrote:
1. Of course you need LOS to fire at a target.

10.1 Generally, a unit in one hex must be able to "see" a unit in another hex in order to fire at it.

20.3 Each piece that is activated to Fire may take one shot at any hex within both its Range and LOS.


2. I'm not sure what you mean by "Leaders just needs LOS, but just range". There is no maximum range when spotting for artillery, but the range does affect the targeting roll.

O18.2.2 Once the SR has been placed, make a normal Targeting Roll [O20.2.3] using the range between the Spotter and the SR’s current hex.

3. You can only have LOS to a lower elevation if you are in a crest hex. That's stated very clearly in T88.3.2 (bearing in mind that LOS is reciprocal).

T88.3.2 A unit may only trace a LOS into the initial Crest hex of each elevation above it.


I meant to say leaders making spotting rounds needs LOS, but NOT range.

I'm reading the rules cited next to it literally (unless I missed something obvious, which is possible).

Thanks.
 
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David desJardins
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dvader123 wrote:
I meant to say leaders making spotting rounds needs LOS, but NOT range.


What could it mean that a leader "does not need range"?

If you mean that there is no minimum or maximum range for artillery spotting, then yes, that is correct.
 
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Chad Jensen
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Quote:
Ordnance and Smoke just needs range (but not LOS) to target an enemy. [O20.2 and O20.2.1 don't mention LOS]

Ordnance needs both LOS and Range to whatever hex it is targeting. If it is firing Smoke, there doesn't need to be an enemy unit in the targeted hex (but still needs to be within LOS and Range)

Quote:
Leaders doing Fire for Effect Action [O18.2] just needs LOS, but not range [O18.2.1 doesn't mention range]

Correct. Radios have "infinite" Range in CC. So a Leader performing an Artillery Request Order need only have LOS to the hex in which the SR is placed.

Quote:
Also in "T88.3.2 Vertical LOS grey box" states that the LOS starting from unit A must cross a Crest Line before crossing a hexside in order to have LOS into unit B.

I'm wondering if the hexside that's referred to above is your own hexside in where your unit is firing from or the adjacent hexside? If it's your own hexside then that must mean that in order to have LOS to another elevation you must fire from a hex that contains a Crest Line, no?

Correct (as long as you replace the word "another" with "a lower").
 
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David desJardins
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This thread reminded me of a question. Suppose my leader targets artillery into its own hex. Range is 0, so normally this would be an auto-hit, right? But, if there's smoke in the hex, does that hindrance count against the targeting roll? I would think so.
 
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Chad Jensen
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Sounds right to me, David.
 
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Ken Shin
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Chad Jensen wrote:
Quote:
Ordnance and Smoke just needs range (but not LOS) to target an enemy. [O20.2 and O20.2.1 don't mention LOS]

Ordnance needs both LOS and Range to whatever hex it is targeting. If it is firing Smoke, there doesn't need to be an enemy unit in the targeted hex (but still needs to be within LOS and Range)

Thanks all.

I was motivated to ask this after reading O20.2 and O20.2.1 when it stated that "the range between the firing Ordnance and the target hex is determined" and later on it says that "Ordnance is allowed to target any hex within in Range - even one containing no enemy units - if it will place Smoke this way."

Reading these literally made me think that the active player using an ordnance only needs to be in range of the target hex. Since there was no mention of LOS, I thought it wasn't necessary, but then thanks to the other poster, I was directed to O20.3 which states "Each piece that is activated to Fire may take one shot within both its Rage and LOS."

Still, I was confused about whether LOS was necessary for Smoke and Ordnance fire because I didn't see it under their respective sections in the rulebook.

Thanks everyone.
 
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