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Subject: My turn to whine about Geek Modding rss

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Paul Sauberer
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I submitted two pictures for a game that had none so far and both were rejected.

The pictures are
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/269821
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/269822

Both got hit with the "too much glare" message, which is at least arguable, although in the case of the box top I think is minimal.

What gets me is that the picture of the contents got the "image was irelevant to the subject" message as well as a comment of "elastic bands!"

How is a picture of the contents of a game that has no pictures irrelevant to the subject? And is a picture with rubber bands around cards automatic rejection material, even if that is the way the game comes?

I wish that we could mod the Geek mods.

Edit: to take out the HTML tags and just leave the links to the images.
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Arthur
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I don't see any images.
 
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Scott G
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Paul,

Yes, I think geek modding has turned more into a "like minds" game. I say this because the images I've recently had rejected were given inconsistent reasons. My favorite one is when I get not related to game, when both image and caption explain its the CRT table!

So have a good whine, but I really don't see an easy solution other than becoming a geek modder yourself and trying to do a good job for the site.

Good Luck!
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Ron Pfeiffer
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Paul

The whole modding structure is awful. Apparently Aldie chooses not to do anything about it. I got a rejection a few days ago for the picture being upside down (it wasn't), the picture having too much glare (it had none) and the picture being too small (it easily fit the GEEK requirements for minimum picture size). I sent Aldie a copy of the picture that was rejected along with the reasons that were given why the rejection happened and his reply to me was that modders must be simply using any reason too reject and that he would look into it. I am still waiting. The picture was for a game that had no other pictures.

I have been on a (so far unsuccessfull) mission to have first pictures excluded from the modding process all together. Especially when a game is old and the chances of getting another picture are slim. I took a picture of a game that I own and I would say that the odds of any one else in the country owning the game would be slim at best. The picture was rejected because it came from my not very expensive camera and was not perfect.

The advice that I have been given is if its rejected re-submit it again and maybe a different group of modders will accept it. Is that really the way the modding system should work?

And yes MODDERS should be MODDED. Wonder how many of them have never submitted a picture to the site. Names of modders who reject pictures should be made public, or at least be included in the rejection notice that comes back to the submitter, along with the reasons that they specifically gave for rejections. That at least might make them pay attention instead of simply trying to get GG by rejecting.

Furthermore, someone who rejects a picture for being upside down when its not or for a picture being irrelevant when its the first picture or for any other phony reason should be banned from ever modding again.
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Troy Hughes
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I didn't mod these pics, but if I had I would have tried to include some helpful comments when I rejected them...

Sorry - I'm not flaming or anything - but if you've read this far, at least listen to my critiques...

The box cover is not terrible. But the line drawing of the fish on bicycle with all the sports gear *is* a pretty big part of the graphic design of the cover. And you really can't see it because of the glare. Try taking the picture in a brightly lit room (preferably natural lighting that doesn't come from just one or two bright sources) and not using the camera's flash.

Also the image could use some cropping. Focusing on the cover should really focus on the cover - crop out as much of the background/table as possible. (It is a nice neutral background, but that's not what we're looking at.)

Finally it's pretty huge. For something that's essentially a 4-color graphic, that much detail isn't necessary. And it really highlights the glare (no pun intended - really )

As for the other picture - same comments about the glare. The layout/posing of the shot could be a little more interesting... Instead of just taking the cover off the box and snapping a pic, maybe taking the components out and posing them a bit would be more interesting. Fan the cards out... show half of them face up in another fan. Stuff like that.

Please don't take offense. I'm not slamming you. I really am trying to offer some helpful advice.

I certainly don't claim to be a master photographer. But taking just a little time to set up a picture before hand and then editing it a bit after can make a world of difference.

Here's a couple shots I've put in the database, showing some of the posing and tight cropping that I'm talking about... (With the last one being ALL about the posing... )





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wryone wrote:
Yes, I think geek modding has turned more into a "like minds" game. I say this because the images I've recently had rejected were given inconsistent reasons.
Which one, 'like minds' or 'inconsistent', and how do you get from one to the other. Answers in 100 words or fewer.
 
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fuzzyfife wrote:
And yes MODDERS should be MODDED.

No problem with that.

But Ron, please show us the picture.
 
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Sean Dooley
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I've been frustrated with this process too. A couple pictures I've tried to submit that I've wanted to use in reviews have been rejected. This has made me not want to do the reviews now. If I'm going to do a review, I'd like to go all out on it, and if my pictures are going to be rejected, I really can't do that. The images were even cleaned up with Photoshop, so in my opinion they looked nice.

Maybe I'll resubmit them sometime, but I doubt it.
 
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Sean Dooley
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Also, I feel like the increased amount of GG rewarded for denying a picture has an unfair amount of bias on how you rate the pictures. I know any picture that I feel is even remotely questionable I'll generally deny. Fair. Hell no. Easy way to make GG. Yup. I don't like it, but I guess it is the system we presently have in place.
 
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Psauberer wrote:
I submitted two pictures for a game that had none so far and both were rejected.

I know your photos and I know you add a lot of useful images to the site. I have to say though, I would have declined one or both of the ones you reference above on the grounds of glare. The glare is avoidable and obscures key parts of the image.

You are right, however, that some mods just seem to click any box - no idea why. The worst thing about this, for me, is that it seems to provide an irrelevant focus for the ire of the person who had the image rejected, when actually, what I want the uploader to focus on is making the image better.

What I would really like to say as a modder is something like:
We love games on this site. We love pictures of games, but these games deserve pictures that allow you to see the game in all its glory. Unfortunately, the image you submitted [was out of focus/had some glare obscuring part of the game/ etc.]. This is what you could do to try to resolve that...

Unfortunately, all I have are tick boxes at my disposal. But I will always try to explain in more detail if anyone starts a thread like this.
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wittdooley wrote:
A couple pictures I've tried to submit that I've wanted to use in reviews have been rejected.
That is absolutely what your personal gallery is for. A lot of the photos that appear in reviews would not be appropriate or relevant to the game gallery but illustrate the review perfectly.
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Jonathan "Gorno" Fashena
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fuzzyfife wrote:
Paul

The whole modding structure is awful. Apparently Aldie chooses not to do anything about it.

I think this is actually addressed in the FAQ: since the system depends on the Mods, they aren't second-guessed because it's simply not worth the trouble and risk of alienating them. I say this as someone who's had plenty of rejections, many (in my opinion) undeserved/inconsistent, from the "photo gestapo," as I affectionately call them.

Quote:

...
I have been on a (so far unsuccessful) mission to have first pictures excluded from the modding process altogether. Especially when a game is old and the chances of getting another picture are slim. I took a picture of a game that I own and I would say that the odds of any one else in the country owning the game would be slim at best. The picture was rejected because it came from my not very expensive camera and was not perfect.


I absolutely agree that photos submitted for a game that has none should be given plenty of leeway: they are, after all, better than nothing! (Just as a superior quality image that improves upon a prior one but contains no added content is accepted.) And "We'd like to accept this image, but can you improve the following?" should be the default message for composition/brightness/glare-type issues. Likewise, I agree that they're often too strict about camera quality, and this excludes too many people from contributing (I only got a decent camera recently myself). (If you have (access to) a scanner, that's another way to produce images of stuff that can be scanned, like pages and boxes).

Gorno
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Sean Dooley
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boltongeordie wrote:
wittdooley wrote:
A couple pictures I've tried to submit that I've wanted to use in reviews have been rejected.
That is absolutely what your personal gallery is for. A lot of the photos that appear in reviews would not be appropriate or relevant to the game gallery but illustrate the review perfectly.


Ah Ha! Had no idea I could do that! Thanks!
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johngorno wrote:
Likewise, I agree that they're often too strict about camera quality, and this excludes too many people from contributing (I only got a decent camera recently myself). (If you have (access to) a scanner, that's another way to produce images of stuff that can be scanned, like pages and boxes).
Your post contained a lot of good stuff. Can I just take issue with this though. It is really, really easy to take a good photo of a game. Bung it in some natural daylight, take half a dozen shots, select the best one and crop it to size. Bingo. As long as you avoid flashes, light-bulbs late at night, the function that shows the date on the shot and trying to frame the image with the camera itself you cant lose.

I am no photographer, I am not arty at all, yet I have a golden image uploader microbadge because I follow the simple rules above.
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Karl Rainer
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Yes, a good whine. Both your pictures have too much glare and should be rejected purely on that account. I did not mod them, but I would have done the same.

So, what you are complaining about? The ADDITIONAL reasons which were given for rejection? shake

Whether the game had a million images or no images at all, Aldie has set criteria to avoid accepting ANY bad images into the database.

Accordingly, don't upload bad images! Take a look at them first, then if there is something wrong with the image, retake it until you get it right, THEN upload the acceptable image.

If you are really at a loss as to how to improve your photography, please peruse the many existing threads with tips for photographers here. I submit that that is a far more productive use of all of our time.

(Apologies for crankyness, but the whole Agricola thing has made me quite disgruntled today)
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Scott G
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boltongeordie wrote:
wryone wrote:
Yes, I think geek modding has turned more into a "like minds" game. I say this because the images I've recently had rejected were given inconsistent reasons.
Which one, 'like minds' or 'inconsistent', and how do you get from one to the other. Answers in 100 words or fewer.


You said it yourself...

boltongeordie wrote:
that some mods just seem to click any box - no idea why.


Like minds to reject for geekgold, random for reason. Thought it was clear. No need to be rude.

Regards
 
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Darren M
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I don't mod a lot or follow the "controversies" that may exist in this sub-sub-sub sector of BGG but when I do mod a bit I really don't give a hoot about the geekgold. I look at the pics for what they are and judge them only on their merits. If a game has no pics then that's pretty much an automatic yes from me... any pic is better than no pic. If it's the 7000th pic of a Heroscape character balanced precariously on a cat's ass... I'd probably be inclined to deny as I dislike cats in general. (Sorry you cat-in-a-box fans)... you get no love from me.

If a game has other identical pics I'd be in decline mode. I'd say the essentials of a game need to be covered... box front, back, contents such as various shots of the bits and the gameboard, some "game in action" shots (especially for the dexterity games) etc and then a few artsy fartsy photos are OK as well. But I personally would reward creative shots over the 45th shot of a gameboard with Ralph and Larry sitting and smiling at the camera.

As for your pics in particular... NO BRAINER in any sane person's opinion... they are the only pics for the game so they ARE IN and YOU GET GOLD for them. The point of the database first and foremost is as a database of information for boardgaming and anything that adds critical info such as descriptions and pics of rare or uncommon games should be IN. We can get particular about image entries once there are other many other pics for the game.
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Mike Malley
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I didn't realize that there aren't official modders. So once a pic gets enough yes or no votes it's automatically accepted/rejected? That's kinda cool that if something is rejected you get the reasons why, though only if people actually reject it for the reason they're rejecting, of course.
 
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Paul Sauberer
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krainer wrote:
So, what you are complaining about? The ADDITIONAL reasons which were given for rejection? shake



Yeah, pretty much.

Anyone who would reject the only picture of a game's contents because it is "irrelevant to the subject" or because it has rubber bands in the picture should not be allowed within 100 yards (or meters) (or metres) of the Geek Mod module here.
 
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Karl Rainer
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OK, thanks for being directly honest about it, and I apologise again for my testiness in the earlier post.

Truth be told, I would really like a more complete modding system...
my wishlist includes manditory captions by the submitter, and manditory image tagging by the modder!
 
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    Resubmit. They'll go through when someone less needy is modding.

    On occasion there seems to be a storm of rejections of everything, I think because a few modders are looking to get the better payoff on the reject. When there are more than one simultaneously bouncing everything the payoff is big, and they have good incentive to keep rejecting.

    Resubmit. They'll go through.

             Sag.
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Mike Malley
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Maybe they just weren't paying attention to what they clicked or meant "irrelevant" as in "it doesn't really show anything about the game".
 
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I can't comment on the additional reasons for rejection, but they definitely both have too much glare, especially the second one.

They could be cropped better, but I wouldn't decline them for that reason.

Never underestimate the power or possibility of a misclick. It would seem I started a whole thread once because I went to click Miscellaneous and managed to click on Mature instead blush
 
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Daniel Danzer
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If you get silly reasons for rejections, please consider, that there were plenty of modders, obviously a certain critical percentage of them rejected the pic, but probably only ONE clicked on this silly reason. Enough to let you know in the rejection mail.
I suggested on different occasions, that I would relly appreciate it, if you`d know about the percentages of approval, declining and the reasons - even, if your picture got approved, so you can consider the judgment of the modders for improving your photography. I am convinced, that most of the whining comes from this non-transparency.

I don`t share 100% with the opinion, that the first image of a game should be approved automatically. Yes, it is better to have a "not so good" image than none. But I think, people should rather take more care than less, if they take the first (and only?) picture of a game! Why not apply the same standards, if you mod them? It only makes this flood of "box cover, higher resolution" pics necessary, and the whole database becomes more and more difficult to overview.

If you are able to handle your camera, you ahould be able to take acceptable shots, otherwise don`t submit them.

Plus: If somebody owns a game and takes photos, he should be able to take some better ones, if rejected. We are not talking about hours and hours of hard work, as other posters here already explained. It`s fast earning, faster than by geekmodding, you can believe me (having submitted almost 230 images and earned 120 by geekmodding).

Thank you for your attention and sorry, if my words were not sooo over-friendly (this time).
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Sagrilarus wrote:
Resubmit. They'll go through.
Given the postings so far on this thread, I would not be so sure. The glare really lets these images down.

Instead of resubmitting the same poor quality images:

1. Walk outside with the components/box during daylight hours, put them down on a deck, footpath or whatever you have got. If the sun is shining brightly (you live in Florida Paul?) then put them in the shade.

2. Stand next to the components/box, hold your camera directly above them and take half a dozen shots, moving the camera position up or down between each one, changing zoom settings etc.

3. Load the images to your PC, find the best one, crop it to size and submit it.

This may be slightly longer than your current routine but it has to be a better use of your time as it pretty much guarantees that you will get images good enough to be accepted every time. I cant remember the last time I had an image declined.
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