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Subject: Most favorite Combat Resolution system? rss

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Michael Ptak
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Hi all. Not sure if this belongs in the boardgame design thread or here, but here goes:

I'm currently designing a hex-and-counter wargame and I'm kinda stuck at the Combat Resolution table. I can either go the Probability ratios way that's been seen in many wargames, or my CRT could have the columns divided by "difference of combat strength", and then roll from there.

It made me wonder about other examples of CRTs, and what wargamers nowadays perfer (and find fast and easy to use).

So anyone have a favorite way to resolve combat between units? This is for hex-and-counter wargames, of course.
 
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Michael Tagge
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Norsehound wrote:
Hi all. Not sure if this belongs in the boardgame design thread or here, but here goes:

I'm currently designing a hex-and-counter wargame and I'm kinda stuck at the Combat Resolution table. I can either go the Probability ratios way that's been seen in many wargames, or my CRT could have the columns divided by "difference of combat strength", and then roll from there.

It made me wonder about other examples of CRTs, and what wargamers nowadays perfer (and find fast and easy to use).

So anyone have a favorite way to resolve combat between units? This is for hex-and-counter wargames, of course.


Are units chits with stats, or abstracted unit strengths? If they are units with different stats you almost have to stick with a CRT. If they are abstracted to 1 strength increments, you could roll a die and score a kill on a particular number (5 or 6 as an example). If they are abstracted to unit types, you could have a hit number or defend number a la Axis and Allies.

Cheers.
 
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Michael Ptak
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The particular system I'm using represents fleets as the "base" unit, with each fleet having various combat strengths. Other than this, the only other factor each unit has is a movement allowance.
 
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David Bohnenberger
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The obvious problem with "difference of combat strengths" is that it won't scale. A "3" attacking a "1" will have no more advantage than a "9" attacking a "7" would. This is the reason the ratio system was developed to begin with.
 
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Mark Slater
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Darrell Pavitt
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Dweeb wrote:
The obvious problem with "difference of combat strengths" is that it won't scale. A "3" attacking a "1" will have no more advantage than a "9" attacking a "7" would. This is the reason the ratio system was developed to begin with.


You are correct. Some CRTs use odds ratios, and differentials for "fine resolution" around 1:1 odds.
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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Dweeb wrote:
The obvious problem with "difference of combat strengths" is that it won't scale. A "3" attacking a "1" will have no more advantage than a "9" attacking a "7" would. This is the reason the ratio system was developed to begin with.


You are correct. Some CRTs use odds ratios, and differentials for "fine resolution" around 1:1 odds.
 
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Drew Heath
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I don't have anything constructive to add, but I will say that...

CRT's F***ing ROCK! and anyone who doesn't like 'em is a punk.

Oh, and San Dimas High School Football RULES!
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Michael @mgouker
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Well, it's not just strength differences that should give you advantages on the CRT. Check out how Pax Romana does it. You don't even need a CRT really.

The basic roll is a D6 for each side that gives 10% losses per number shown, HOWEVER you can gain shifts to the rolls whose net balance can be used by the winner. You get shifts for:

1. Strength. 1.5:1 gives 1 shift, 2:1 gives 2 shifts, 3:1=3 shifts, etc
2. Difference in field commanders. Each commander has a tactical rating. The better commander gets a difference.
3. Possible tactics cards can give 2 shifts.
4. You can get benefits for combined arms, like cavalry superiority.
5. You can get benefits for terrain advantage, like defending on a shore.

So, if you roll a 3, with a 1 ranked commander, and 2:1 advantage (3 shifts combined) and your oppenent rolls a 4 with a 2 ranked commander (1 shift), you have a 2 shift advantage. You can do any of the following:

Raise your 3 to 4 and reduce your opponents 4 to a 3, meaning you do 40% to his troops and take 30% damage on your own. (1 shift for offense and 1 shift for defense)

Raise your 3 to a 5 to do 50% to his troups and take the 40% he rolled. (2 shifts for offense)

Keep your 3 and change his 4 result to a 2 to do 30% to his troops and take 20% against your own. (2 shifts for defense)

You apply a percentage loss against your attacking strength and reduce your forces to that level. Raise fractions up.

This is much better explained in the rules, which are available online.

 
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Michael Lucey
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I guess it depends on the scale of your system. For tactical and operational level the ASL CRT has always stood up well but I really like the Fire in the Sky and even the soon to be released Warriors of God "hit" system where you have rounds of battle and each side rolls and damage is applied. That way you are not searching for that extra FP point to push you into the next column on the table, yet each side can receive damage. I also find the dr vs DR concept to be a little less lucky, odd's may not reflect that but my perception does. I would not want to be doing that for a strategic level game though.
I'm not really a fan of the straight odd's CRT like the Gamer's SCS. I have seen a FitS type CRT where each side rolls once based on FP and damage is applied that way, with units having an "absorbtion" rating.
 
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Jim Ruddy
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As mentioned by others, scale is important.

I've tried to come up with various methods for doing this for an operational system because you know there are no good operational systems alread (you can call me an idiot now.)

The problem with odds is an attack by 90 versus 30 has the same results as 9 versus 3 3:1.

The only solution I've come up with is two tables - one for the ratio, the other for the size of the unit taking damage.

For example:
If it is 90:30 the ratio is 3:1 - the die roll of a 5 results in a result (A1 D4 for example)

Then I look up the number of steps attacking in the damage table - in this case 10 - and find the "1" row (A1) to determine that the attackers lost 3 steps. The defenders look up the "4" row (D4) row for the 5 steps column to determine the defender loses 4 steps.

Another thought I had was the use of tactical attack and defense chits.

Each would have a symbol for attack and defense on the back, most would be standard attacks, but there would be a supply of "Assault", "Feign", "Probe", "Counter Attack", "Determined Resistance" - each with modifiers to combat results and supply requirements.

Good luck.
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Andrew C
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Don't forget to consider the 'bucket of dice' method. Each strength point rolls a die, and every 'x' (say, 5 or 6) counts as a hit.

Rolling a lot of dice is fun and decreases the impact of a single bad die roll.
 
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Andrew C
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Liggur wrote:


Great pic, I can even 'hear' it:

"Da Da DAA DAA DAA DAA DAA DaDa Daaaah Duh"


edit: I needed more "DAA's"
 
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Jay Richardson
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These days I really prefer the use of Firepower tables over the more traditional odds-based CRTs or bucket-of-dice systems. A Firepower table combines the best of these systems: like a CRT, it's fast... often requiring only a single die roll, and like a bucket-of-dice system, it does not require any calculations other than simple counting.

With a Firepower table, you simply total the firepower of the attacking units and roll on the corresponding column of the Firepower table. There aren't many wargames that use Firepower tables, but here are some examples to show the different ways that a Firepower table can be used.

* In the old game Hitler's War, the Firepower table roll simply tells you how many strength points the defending units must lose.

* In Barbarossa to Berlin, damage from the Firepower table roll is applied to the defending unit only if it equals or exceeds the defending unit's Loss Factor. In addition, BtB uses two Firepower tables: one for large combat units (which are more powerful) and one for small combat units. Terrain effects are applied as column shifts before the roll.

* In ASL, the Firepower table (IFT) roll results in a condition which usually triggers a roll by the defending units. A "2MC" result, for example, means that each defending unit must roll a Morale Check with a +2 DRM. Terrain effects are applied to the original Firepower table roll as DRMs.

***

And finally, other discussions of combat resolution systems can be found here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/tag/combat_resolution
 
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Mark Slater
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Cleitus the Black wrote:

Great pic, I can even 'hear' it:

"Da Da DAA DAA DAA DAA DAA DaDa Daaaah Duh"


edit: I needed more "DAA's"


It was the first thing that popped in my head when I saw the combat resolution title.
 
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