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Subject: Are the review modders too stingy? rss

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Paul - the
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I have written several reviews lately and to get some spotlight on some lesser known games I enjoy (and to get that review badge too, I admit).

I'm reasonably satisfied with my reviews and I probably should be as they took quite a while to write and "illustrate".

Now to my complaint. The review modders seems to be very stingy at times with the GG reward. I know you can get between 2 and 5 GG for a review. That should be 3.5 GG on average. I like to think my reviews are at least average but hopefully a bit above that.

My other reviews got between 3.67 and 4.2 GG. Not bad and I didn't complain and was actually surprised when I got above 4 GG for a review.

But today I wrote a long review where I had taken the time to take pictures so I could show the game components and game play with pictures. All I got was 3.2 GG and 2 thumbs.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1876926

I can't say much about the thumbs as that's up to the readers but I still think 3.2 GG is quite low for that review.

Did I get the review modders from hell today or were I lucky when I uploaded the other reviews?
 
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Paul - the
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Koldfoot wrote:
If you are writing reviews for the purpose of earning GG, you are writing for the wrong reasons.


As I said, I'm not writing them for the GG, I mainly wanted the reviewer microbadge. Perhaps that's a wrong reason as well, but I tried to write it for the readers and not just to get that badge. If it was just that I could have made it much easier on myself.

Koldfoot wrote:
Edit: to reiterate, not singling you out. Haven't even read the review. Don't have time to figure out what one you are referring to at the moment.


The link is right there in my post. Not too hard to find I hope.
 
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Kris Verbeeck
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You can get one to five GG on a review.

The problem with reviewing a not so wellknown older kidsgame that is not new is that simply not many people will read it. This means lesser thumbs.

In all i believe 3.2 is fair. I received 3 GG for my Flashenteufel review an 3.5 something for my Um reifenbreite review. (I'm proud of both reviews)


BTW I would have rewarded it 4 GG. I would have to decide between three and four. Since it is the first review of the game I would have chosen 4 GG.
I would much prefer a slider for rewards. Instead of the five possible rewards.

BTW reviews,session reports,images,modding shouldn't be about the GG.
The GG is a bonus. The fact that you are contributing to the outlook of this site should be enough.
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Paul - the
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KrisVerbeeck wrote:
You can get one to five GG on a review.


Ok, seems like I got above average after all. Thanks!

KrisVerbeeck wrote:
The problem with reviewing a not so wellknown older kidsgame that is not new is that simply not many people will read it. This means lesser thumbs.


I'm not so concerned about the thumbs as I knew from the start I wouldn't receive many for this review. Still think there are a lot of thumb misers out there.
 
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John Earles
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Someone tipped me the other day for adding some links to a thread.

I wasn't expecting it, but it was a nice sentiment.

Passin' it on... meeple

P.S. Good job on the review. I would have given you 4GG.
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Nico Solitander
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Children's games reviews tend to get less gg in relation to the effort put in -especially compared to eurogames or ameritrash- even though there is a clear void in this review niche, and a demand. I have seen gg rewards for very good children's games reviews that have got less than 2 gg, if you want to measure the appreciation of reviews in gg it is a better bet to submit the 53rd review for Battlelore.

What this shows is mostly that BGG is a planned economy where gg is artificially channeled to certain game types by the ruling elite. Many geekmods are known to have had a deprived gaming childhoods which they now tit-for-tat through the art of mis-modding. Another theory is that they think that the reviews are photographs-of-kids-playing-games in disguise.
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Jim Cote
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Sadly, pandering gets your more GG. Say good things about what everyone is hot about, and you'll be rich. Write a deep thoughtful illustrated well-formatted review of a lesser-known or liked game and you'll get average. Still, it's more satisfying to do the latter.
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Mendon Dornbrook
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koldfoot wrote:
If you are writing reviews for the purpose of earning GG, you are writing for the wrong reasons.


I respectfully disagree with the gentleman from Alaska (but only slightly). There are two parts to the process of publishing any review. The first part is the amount of effort and overall quality of the publication (neither of which are necessarily correlated). The second part is on the end of the people who moderate the article. Besides, if Aldie agreed that writing reviews for GG is the wrong reason, he'd take away GG rewards for reviews.

Alas, it is the moderators that determine the value of a given article. I suspect that most moderators breeze through reviews and assign an arbitrary value to each review, largely guided by their familiarity with a game, the "at a glance appeal" that a review has, familiarity with the person publishing the review, etc...

On each end of this there are incentives for each person involved. However, the incentives on the end of the moderators is tied to agreement with other moderators, not whether a review is well written.

In theory, if all of the incentives were tied to the quality of the review, then writing a review purely for GG would be exactly the right reason. As you learned to write a qualitatively superior review, your earnings would increase.

Instead of complaining about stingy moderators, I suggest, instead, complaining about lazy moderators who undervalue your good (assuming they're good) reviews by clicking without reading.
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Randy Cox
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Doomfarer wrote:
I have written several reviews lately and to get some spotlight on some lesser known games I enjoy (and to get that review badge too, I admit).
That was last month's project for me, too. Sometimes games almost as old as I am.
Quote:
The review modders seems to be very stingy at times with the GG reward. I know you can get between 2 and 5 GG for a review.
I think you get from 1 to 5. Last month I analyzed the GG for every single review (over 400 of them) and several got less than 2 GG. So, let's say the GG ranges from 1 to 5 with an average of 3 if everything worked out right around the middle. But that's not accurate...
Quote:
That should be 3.5 GG on average. I like to think my reviews are at least average but hopefully a bit above that.

My other reviews got between 3.67 and 4.2 GG.
That's extremely good. Only 9 out of over 400 reviews in October got 4.0 or better GG.
Quote:
But today I wrote a long review where I had taken the time to take pictures so I could show the game components and game play with pictures. All I got was 3.2 GG and 2 thumbs.
The average for all reviews last month was just about 2.5 GG. So was the median. So, your review was seen as quite a bit better than "par." I figure that 2 for a review means it wasn't that good. Anything above 2.8 is a stellar review in my book.

Quote:
I can't say much about the thumbs as that's up to the readers but I still think 3.2 GG is quite low for that review.
I did analysis on the thumbs, too, I think. I'm too lazy right now to look up my forum thread showing the stats.
Quote:
Did I get the review modders from hell today or were I lucky when I uploaded the other reviews?
You got the garden variety modders. Your totals indicate that you did a good job and were well paid for the effort (in terms of BGG payment schedules).
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When I GeekMod I look at the quality of the piece in front of me. Also, I sometimes consider that if a game is not that much of a known quantity I am more likely to vote to give it a higher amount.

That being said, I think too many reviewers focus on quantity or verbosity at the expense of content. I have noticed too, that if a review is small (3-5 paragraphs) it seems to get rejected almost always regardless of the quality of content.

What I look for: a unique point of view; insight into the game; how it plays; an easy to digest writing style; and a sense of humor. All of these are even more appreciated in a Session Report.

Hope that gives you some food for thought.
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Rob Herman
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Koldfoot wrote:

If you are writing reviews for the purpose of earning GG, you are writing for the wrong reasons.



The reviews I have written, I have written because I wanted to make a contribution. If I just wanted GG, I would put in an extra hour at work and auction off the GG to get enough to be swimming in.

But it feels like the GG that comes back from these is frustratingly low. I would like to think that for two or three good, 90-minute-to-write reviews, I could get myself, well, at least a microbadge.
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Here have some GG toward that microbadge.
I do not have a lot, but if someone cares enough to contribute then it is the least I can do.
 
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Rob Herman
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Thank you!

I and, I believe, others, do appreciate it. When I become GeekIndependentlyWealthy I intend to direct my tips to good contributions (lists, reviews, etc.) from those without avatars. Knowing someone cares enough to tip your writing feels really good.
 
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Nico Solitander
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Sitnaltax wrote:
Thank you!

I and, I believe, others, do appreciate it. When I become GeekIndependentlyWealthy I intend to direct my tips to good contributions (lists, reviews, etc.)


and images... of people playing games...and reviews of children's games...

You need to get a geek badge fast, here have some GG.
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Paul - the
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Thanks for the replies guys. I stand corrected and see I should be happy with what I got.

As a show of gratitude I have given out more GG than I got in extra tips, if nothing else, to show that it wasn't the GG I was after.
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Scott Everts
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I've had a similar issue with files. I'm an artist and one of the things I like to do in my spare time is make player aids for games. I've created things like ref cards, standees, etc. Some for big games, some for obscure games. But the GG you get for those can vary drastically. I remember getting 5 GG for doing new combat cards for DungeonQuest. I never expected that and was impressed by the generosity. They did take me several evenings work in Photoshop to make. Recently I did standees for Heroes Inc. which also took several evenings of work and only got 2 GG. So it does seem to matter more on how popular or well loved a game is.

One thing I do think gets way too much GG is picture submissions. One GG for a picture! While a review or file gets 1-5. Reviews and files can take hours or days to make while a pic can be snapped very quickly. I really think they should lower the payout on pics to maybe .5 GG which seems more fair.

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Stella M
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I would have given you between 4 and 5 GG for that review. It was an informative, well-illustrated and fun-to-read review. I especially liked that you also mentioned possible problems (shaker stoppers coming loose) and your solution for it. meeple

@ScottE: I can't speak for every image submitter, but I never just snap a picture and submit it... usually I take out the game, think about what I would like to show, arrange the components and/or box, snap several pictures of the same item, then I upload them to my computer, open them in an image editing software, pick out the best of each bunch, crop it, adjust contrast, colors, etc., resize, and then save it. Then I upload the image to the Geek with a hopefully informative caption... and wait. meeple

That said, I agree that creating player aids such as the ones you've described or writing reviews such as Paul's takes more effort. If it were up to me, I would probably award a minimum of 3 GG for reviews and files, with a max of 5 or 6 GG...
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Brian Morris
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I give 5 gold to most reviews. It's not my geek gold after all so if it's a good review I click the max.
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Kris Verbeeck
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ScottE wrote:
I've had a similar issue with files. I'm an artist and one of the things I like to do in my spare time is make player aids for games. I've created things like ref cards, standees, etc. Some for big games, some for obscure games. But the GG you get for those can vary drastically. I remember getting 5 GG for doing new combat cards for DungeonQuest. I never expected that and was impressed by the generosity. They did take me several evenings work in Photoshop to make. Recently I did standees for Heroes Inc. which also took several evenings of work and only got 2 GG. So it does seem to matter more on how popular or well loved a game is.

One thing I do think gets way too much GG is picture submissions. One GG for a picture! While a review or file gets 1-5. Reviews and files can take hours or days to make while a pic can be snapped very quickly. I really think they should lower the payout on pics to maybe .5 GG which seems more fair.



I don't agree on the pictures. Yes some are shots that took only a minute to take and another minute to upload but some pictures take much time.
Take a look at the pictures of the holders of a golden image uploader badge.
I believe gollum can easily point us to a set of pictures that took at least 2 hours to make.


I would much prefer a slider for all content uploaded.

I think some session reports get too much. I see the use for a session report but i believe there is one much respected uploader of those that uploads just scores in rounds and a line or two text. I believe these session reports have a personal value and for that reason i have to approve them. I can't say it is similar to another session report... Sometimes I just don't know what the sesion report is about.

Pictures have user galleries. I believe maybe this feature should be added for reviews, sessions and strategy articles as well.
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Paul - the
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I agree with you Kris. I guess BGG has the policy that all content is good content, and in most cases I agree. Some get by their GG easier than others but then I would rather see a short session report than having the 1,000 eBay listing for some CCG or whatever that some people keeps adding.
 
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Doomfarer wrote:
Did I get the review modders from hell today or were I lucky when I uploaded the other reviews?
YOU were "Lucky" on those others, and I don't even bother anymore putting anything through "the process" here, as then this can avoid the what I also consider as general ignorances of those who 'view' these during such. Having people READ over and comprehend something of which they have NO "desire" or interest upon that for it ALL, doesn't help matters either. Those folks that HAVE a "game" or another akin to that as what is involved for THIS, SHOULD be the 'ones' judging it in a manner that is befitting. Were there some WAY in which to direct these to those based ON what a person has "under their belt", then it may regain some semblances for being FAIR once again.
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Actually I like modding stuff I have not played. Whether it is an article, a picture of components, a review, or a session, it occassionally gives me the desire to take a look at this game. One I might not have come to by other means. The Geek is just way to big a database to go through everything.
Cheers.
 
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