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Subject: Sums up the problems with Advanced Civ and why I don't like it. rss

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Jerry McVicker
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I read this elsewhere and it sums it up...."The advanced version is more of a wargame, losing much of the elegance of the system in the process. Now there is no longer any strategy in trying to lock others out of certain civilization cards as anyone may buy anything at any time, which admittedly may be more realistic. But it no longer rewards the fine sense of timing and judgement that the original required. On the other hand, it is now no longer possible to lock anyone out of the entire game as players buy combat abilities and turn on the leaders. Combat has become much more important and the endgame tends to be marred as it develops into a popularity contest often as not. Strange situations in which the player doing the best does not necessarily win can result vis-à-vis victory points in the endgame."
 
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Steve Green
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Re:Sums up the problems with Advanced Civ and why I don't like it.
Blackwind (#48375),

I've gotta disagree with you on this point. And before I cite the reasons why I'd like to state this up front: This is my favorite 6-, 7- or 8-player game of all time. I've been "wargaming" since I was 12, and that was nearly 35 years ago. I've played thousands of games in my day, and look forward to playing thousands more.

The best multi-player games keep all players engaged at once, allow all players to interact with one another, and give everyone something to do when it isn't their turn.

AdvCiv excels at all three.

Unike many games, where it is Player A's turn and that player does everyting, and then it's Player B's turn, AdvCiv has all players do Step 1, then all players do step 2, etc. This makes for very little downtime.

Unlike many other multi-player boardgames where you really only interact with your immediate neighbors, the fact that the game is won or lost because of trades, and that you can trade with ANYONE means you can interact with all parties.

And finally, during those brief times when you are not doing something, you can (and should) be looking up advancements, and plotting out the next purchase, calculating the discounts you may have coming, etc.

Another cool aspect is that calamities tend to ebb and flow throughout the land, and the most powerful are usually the hardest hit, while the weakest are often the beneficiaries of someone else's misfortune.

This isn't a game where it all comes down to one lucky die roll, or one strategy that gets derailed by the first earthquake and now you are "out of the running". Everyone can stay "in the game" right up to the end.

As for AdvCiv becoming a "war" game because of the new rules and components, I've never seen that occur. Military action is not uncommon, but it's usually something done sporadically. I've never seen it become a turn-after-turn-after-turn of warfare.

I can't tell from your post if you are a player, and this is your experience, of if the statement you quoted is just that, something you've read and are wondering if it's true.

I suppose if people play this game a hundred times, perhaps as something different they turn it into a "war" game. But my gaming group (which, due to people moving away and such) now gets together once a year over a long weekend to play games, and we always look forward to an all-day event with 8 players, using the expansion map. Last year the winner finished ahead of second place by 8 points! And the third and fourth place finishers were within 150 points. To have 4 players out of 8 within spitting distance of winning right up until the final turn is quite a feat, and this isn't the first time we've had such close games.

The flaw of the base game was that you COULD be locked out of certain advancements, and that could completely detrail your chances to win. I don;t think people would much care to spend the next six hours playing spoiler, knowing they cannot win themselves. Advanced Civ fixed that, and made a great game IMHO the best large multi-player game of all time.
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Eric Gorr
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Re:Sums up the problems with Advanced Civ and why I don't like it.
Blackwind (#48375),

Adv. Civ. is no more of a game of combat then the original and those who attempt to turn it into one will certainly lose. Why? Largely because calamities are a bit harsher. For example, one can no longer purchase a civilization card to mitigate the effects of a calamity in the same turn as one has received that calamity. One simply needs all the units one can spare to deal with them - wasting units on a pointless war will only serve to reduce trading opportunities for all players involved and trading is where the game is truly won and lost.
 
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