What happens when player A plays a dragon and a doppelganger in one column?
Does the doppelganger get the value on the card or the reduced value.
For instance we had a column:
dragon 11 (player A),
Prince 14 (player B),
doppelganger (player A)
king 20 (player B)
Player B gets 30 points (14-2 + 20-2)
But what does Player A get? (11 + 20) = 31 or (11 + 20-2) = 29 ?
in the rules is an order when cards come into effect.
Dont read the sentence on top of side 6. (it is side 6 in my german rules)
So the order is continued as follows:
5. Eremit, 6. small Giant 7. Doppelgänger 8 Drache 9 Romeo 10 Bettler(Beggar)
With this order your Doppelgänger gets 20 point copiing the king. After this, the dragon reduces all cards of another colour by 2.
So player A gets 31 points.
Thanks for your quick reply. It's clear now.
We really like the game
Sorry for bumping into this almost 2-year-old thread, but I found this issue to be quite interesting/important in respect to the game's timing at the end of a round.
I've just finished thoroughly comparing the English rules (that can be downloaded from the Rio Grande site) to the German rules that came with my game. There are quite a few more or less big discrepancies between the two versions, and since this was originally a game designed by a German author, I have the impression that the English version is erroneous in several cases! For example (as has already been determined in another thread in this forum), the Assassin's function is definitely described wrongly: it kills the card lying below it (the one that "discovers" it) and not a card lying above it when it is initially placed.
Regarding the timing issue with the Doppelgänger here: I strongly suspect that someone must have unknowingly added some additional interpreting (or should I say "misinterpreting"?) text to the Wizard and Witch card function descriptions in the English rules, without actually consulting the author whether these are valid! The passage: "...and a Doppelgänger, when taking the role of one of the named cards" (which can be found both under the Wizard and Witch section in the English version) are NOT included at all in the original German rules!!! In fact, the Doppelgänger is not even mentioned as one of the cards that the Witch can remove in the German version!
I can fully understand that this additional (mis-)information has probably lead Henrik to come to the logical conclusion that the Doppelgänger should then be resolved earlier (= have a priority of 1.5): after the Musketeers, but before the Wizard.
However, I strongly believe that this is completely wrong and that neither a Wizard nor a Witch can ever remove a Doppelgänger! Instead, here's how I see things: The author himself has already confirmed that the official/correct priority to resolve effects at the end of a round are as follows:
4. Prince & Squire
6. Small Giant
So in my games, this is what happens in a column with Wizard and/or Witch and Doppelgänger:
- The Doppelgänger is not resolved until step 7, so both the effects of Wizard and Witch are dealt with first
(bear in mind that the Doppelgänger actually has NO VALUE until we reach step 7 - it doesn't even have a value of 0 -like the Invisibility cloak- until then!)
- Therefore: Wizard cannot remove Doppelgänger in step 2, and Witch cannot remove Doppelgänger in step 3 either (simply because the Doppelgänger has not been resolved yet and is treated as a card with absolutely no numerical value!)
- In step 7, anything can still happen: since you now look for the card lying below the Doppelgänger (if there still is one!), the Doppelgänger could now take on some numerical value greater than 9 (if no Wizard was present/resolved during step 2) or smaller than 10 or still not get any value at all (if there was no card or another Doppelgänger below it now)!
You could even have trickier/more surprising situations arising for the Doppelgänger at this point: imagine a Witch, a Doppelgänger, a Squire, a Small Giant and a Hermit (from top to bottom) in one column. The Witch would remove both the Squire and the Small Giant during step 2, but not the Hermit, because he doesn't get reduced until step 5. The Hermit would drop to a value of 10 in step 5 (here, the Doppelgänger already counts as a card, even though it doesn't have a value at this point!) and finally, the Doppelgänger would then copy that value of the Hermit (= 10).
@Henrik: Resolving Doppelgänger at 1.5 would work, too, but it wouldn't really go well with the chaotic/surprising overall character of the game: for example a Doppelgänger above a Small Giant would always get a value of 2 then, and that's probably too predictable/not enough fun...
Overall, I think the timing in this game can really be handled nicely and neatly: all you have to do is just force yourself to strictly go by the order of resolving effects from top to bottom as listed above!
Well, that and... not let yourself get confused by erroneous translations and added misinformation...