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Subject: Pre-determined setup on Moon board? rss

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Mark Gage
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I am preparing to lead my group into our first Shogun adventure tomorrow night. Four persons, reasonably experienced gamers, but definitely still amateurs.

I think we will use the pre-determined setup to help with the time factor. We're generally very deliberate players and I think we will need to do this to keep this first time under 4 hours.

I played through a year of the game by myself to get aquainted with the rules, etc., and thought the sun board invited a bit too much "turtle-ing" (GREAT game, though). It looks to me like the moon board might reduce this problem and generate more interaction. Still, not everyone who is coming tomorrow likes the toe-to-toe stuff as much as I do, and so I don't want to overemphasize the war time element of the game.

So I am asking two questions --

(1) Does the same pre-determined setup work OK for the moon board? The rules say it is designed for the sunny side.

(2) Would you recommend this combination for this group of Shogun players, or should we stick to the sunny side for our first time through?

Thanks for your help.

 
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David Kahnt
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It's fun, it's healthy, it's good exercise. The kids will just love it. And we put a little sand inside to make the experience more pleasant.
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Remediator wrote:
(2) Would you recommend this combination for this group of Shogun players, or should we stick to the sunny side for our first time through?


If its your first time... don't mess too much with pre-determined stuff.

I would just stick with the printed rules.

Good luck! Its a lot of fun!

As long as most are gamers... it shouldn't take that long... (ie 4 hours)

-DK
 
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Evan Stegman
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I always teach with the pre-determined setup.

- It speeds things up. I can have the game all set up and ready to go and that saves a half hour or so right off the top.

- Drafting is asking new players to pick which provinces they think will be good to play with before they've ever had a chance to play the game. It is too easy for someone that's never played before to pretty much screw themselves before the game starts - even with advice (advice only goes so far because of the random element involved with drafting).

- Turtling is more a problem with drafting than anything to do with either side of the map. It's only with drafting I have ever been seen anyone be able to get a good, small clump of territories that they can turtle in and do well. With the pre-determined setups, they do a good job of not allowing anyone to have a really good clump in unthreatened position.

And actually, as far as using the predetermined set up on the sun side of the map, I take it even a step further.

I came up with a scenario that starts in fall of year 1 that usually gets the first teaching game done in less than 2.5 hours (including rules explanation; excluding set up):

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/1370848#1370848

Only for 4 players though and after trying it a few times I did change a couple of buildings around (I will post the changes when I get home tonight) but its worked so well for me its been a long time since I've taught it any other way for 4 players.
 
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Mark Gage
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Thanks Evan. I looked at your linked article and thought this was a brilliant solution for teaching the game in an efficient and fun way. It appears that the game gets better as you go along, and skipping over the first couple seasons is a good way for beginners to avoid "eating the bones." I think I'll use your idea tomorrow.

I also agree that drafting would be a confounding way for beginners to start. Sort of like the beginning of Die Macher, though the misery of the Shogun draft would drag on much longer, and if done poorly, would seriously impact the entire game.

So, for future reference -- does the pre-determined setup described in the rule book work for the Moon board?
 
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Evan Stegman
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I don't think the pre-determined setup will work well on the other side of the map. If you look at the scenario closely, you will see they balance the presences in the regions. The regions change on the other side of the map so it would throw that balance out of whack.

Although your question has got me thinking about it and I may take a crack at at coming up with a modified setup for the moon side in the next few weeks.

If you use the Fall Year 1 teaching scenario, make the following changes:

Remove theater from Hitachi (yellow)
Add temple to Awa-Boso (blue)
 
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Keimpe Visser
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You only have 3 areas to chosse from, when not playing predetermined (2 open, one blind) So for me it seems there is no necessity for a predetermined set-up. Esteemed the choices are small from the beginning.

1) Is the actual card good for rice or tax exploitation?
2) Do i need an army in that area?
3) How much do i need to defend this province.
4) Both open cards, somehow don't feel right, let's take a gamble!
5) How many buildings can i built in that province?

regards,

Keimpe
 
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