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Subject: Some Proposals and a question. rss

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Alberto Natta
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Greetings

First of all thanks for that game, it's a good product, easy to learn, and funny.
I'm an Italian guy that likes wargames, and I'm following GMT website to check if there will be some news about that game, hoping in something in the C3i magazine.

First a Question: Me 262 are destroyed on 2 sixes rolled by allied escorts, but this is an exchange (if it's an exchange, do they bring down 1 or 2 allied fighters?), or it's destroyed only the Me 262?

I've some ideas to improve the game.

Mountain infantry: each block negates the rough terrain +1 defensive hit bonus to one defending enemy units. They do not suffer from from the halving effect of Snow wheather. (since there're extra blocks of reserve in the C3i you can add some stickers, or make an expansion).
Note: Historically some nations had those troops leading some mountain offensive, especially Italy that had in alpine troops his elite force allowing Italy to really try Greece or Yugoslavia by itself (even if historically the German help was needed to conquer them).

Mechanized infantry: it's an infantry class unit type, that cannot enter swamp, cross straits and make amphibious assault (as armor class units). They have movement allowance of 2. Armor class units don't gain the +1 hit bonus by fire on such infantry. They fire on infantry, and are fired upon by infantry as primary target. They can make Breakthrough Operational Movement as armor units (no restriction to 3 or more steps for infantry class units). Each step should cost 2 points.
Note: This is not only historically, but an aid for Germany in Russia in his first offensive, where in all my games Germany had to spend at least 1 Special Action to strat move his infantry to reach the panzers, otherwise panzers would be exposed to russian infantry assault, that could fire directly on armors. Even more the Germany, limited to only 10 normal Panzer Corps, except the very expensive SS/Gd/HG Elites, could have big troubles to cover 3 fronts.


In my opinion too Germany should have a little more Luftwaffe.
Germany should get a 7th GSU, and an 8th elite GSU from Jan/Feb 1941 (Elite GSU: +2 hit bonus on ground unit support, 4-6 dogfight hit, 10 point cost).
Even if counted as interceptor ME 262 and other elite fighters of germany (like the DO 335, the HE 162, the ME 162 and such), and counting probably for 1945 there wil be ready the "Bat" (I don't recall the technical name) jet-fighter could allow this Elite GSU, meanwhile in 1941 there where Stukas suited for soviet tank hunting (like Rudel group)
In 1941/42 too the Russian fighters and pilots were poorly suited to fight the german air force.
I'd suggest a limit of 2 GSU to Russia, at start. The 3rd GSU is added to force pool in Jan/Feb 1942. The fourth on Jan/Feb 1943.

I've proposed things that should advantage mainly Germany (GB and USA have poor or none mountain infantry. Russia had because of Caucasus, but poor. It were Germany and Italy that had good mountain units) because even in a game where Germany has done very well in his first exploits (taking France by conquer and not Vichy, having crippled the Mediterranean English Navy, having taken Afrika and reached Russia from Persia too in 1942, having conquered all historical plus Spain and Gibiltar before Barbarossa reaching a peak of 50 Production Points without Russia and Alexandria , having 31+ submarines sinking convoys to the GB) managed to lose to combined forces of Russia and USA. (Allied Marginal Victory this game).
In my gaming group (4 ppl, usually 1 taking Italy as 4th player), we exchanged Nations many times, but Germany never managed to obtain a draw or better except once.

So on I believe Germany has big problems to obtain even marginal victory, and for what I know Germany should settle well in the first years, it seems that gaining the best production isn't sufficient. We followed the advice on the Play Book to avoid the Sea Lion til the players reach an advanced experience and always went for historical Barbarossa except once where the German Player built Fortress Europe from spain to Poland and realize the Italian "Mare Nostrum" closing the mediterraneum til '43, when his "Fortress" crumbled.
So I hope in some improvement for Germany, so that they can hope too in the decisive victory.

Regards
Alberto Natta

Ps: There's something I could do to contribute to the development in-deep of this game?
 
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Rick Young
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Re:Some Proposals and a question.
Cohen (#51079),

First of all thanks for that game, it's a good product, easy to learn, and funny. I'm an Italian guy that likes wargames, and I'm following GMT website to check if there will be some news about that game, hoping in something in the C3i magazine.

You're in luck - the next C3i Magazine will include a fun little 1944 scenario. One side will play the Soviets and the Western German Defenders. The other player plays the Wallies and the Eeastern German Defenders.

First a Question: Me 262 are destroyed on 2 sixes rolled by allied escorts, but this is an exchange (if it's an exchange, do they bring down 1 or 2 allied fighters?), or it's destroyed only the Me 262?

It is not an exchange, the Me262's are shooting at the bombers, then being pounced when they land/take-off by Allied fighters.

I've some ideas to improve the game.

Your ideas will definitely tilt play balance in favor of the Axis, which I do not feel is required. I think the game has an excellent balance, though I confess that newer players are finding a pro-Allied bias (It is harder playing the Axis side). If you want to use your ideas until the Germans start winning, that's fine, but eventually your German play will equal that of your Allied play and you'll need to stop tweaking the game to favor the Axis. For now, have fun with these variants if you think they restore balance for your group.

Mountain infantry: each block negates the rough terrain +1 defensive hit bonus to one defending enemy units. They do not suffer from from the halving effect of Snow wheather. (since there're extra blocks of reserve in the C3i you can add some stickers, or make an expansion).
Note: Historically some nations had those troops leading some mountain offensive, especially Italy that had in alpine troops his elite force allowing Italy to really try Greece or Yugoslavia by itself (even if historically the German help was needed to conquer them).

Mechanized infantry: it's an infantry class unit type, that cannot enter swamp, cross straits and make amphibious assault (as armor class units). They have movement allowance of 2. Armor class units don't gain the +1 hit bonus by fire on such infantry. They fire on infantry, and are fired upon by infantry as primary target. They can make Breakthrough Operational Movement as armor units (no restriction to 3 or more steps for infantry class units). Each step should cost 2 points.
Note: This is not only historically, but an aid for Germany in Russia in his first offensive, where in all my games Germany had to spend at least 1 Special Action to strat move his infantry to reach the panzers, otherwise panzers would be exposed to russian infantry assault, that could fire directly on armors. Even more the Germany, limited to only 10 normal Panzer Corps, except the very expensive SS/Gd/HG Elites, could have big troubles to cover 3 fronts.


In my opinion too Germany should have a little more Luftwaffe.
Germany should get a 7th GSU, and an 8th elite GSU from Jan/Feb 1941 (Elite GSU: +2 hit bonus on ground unit support, 4-6 dogfight hit, 10 point cost).
Even if counted as interceptor ME 262 and other elite fighters of germany (like the DO 335, the HE 162, the ME 162 and such), and counting probably for 1945 there wil be ready the "Bat" (I don't recall the technical name) jet-fighter could allow this Elite GSU, meanwhile in 1941 there where Stukas suited for soviet tank hunting (like Rudel group)
In 1941/42 too the Russian fighters and pilots were poorly suited to fight the german air force.
I'd suggest a limit of 2 GSU to Russia, at start. The 3rd GSU is added to force pool in Jan/Feb 1942. The fourth on Jan/Feb 1943.

I've proposed things that should advantage mainly Germany (GB and USA have poor or none mountain infantry. Russia had because of Caucasus, but poor. It were Germany and Italy that had good mountain units) because even in a game where Germany has done very well in his first exploits (taking France by conquer and not Vichy, having crippled the Mediterranean English Navy, having taken Afrika and reached Russia from Persia too in 1942, having conquered all historical plus Spain and Gibiltar before Barbarossa reaching a peak of 50 Production Points without Russia and Alexandria , having 31+ submarines sinking convoys to the GB) managed to lose to combined forces of Russia and USA. (Allied Marginal Victory this game).
In my gaming group (4 ppl, usually 1 taking Italy as 4th player), we exchanged Nations many times, but Germany never managed to obtain a draw or better except once.

So on I believe Germany has big problems to obtain even marginal victory, and for what I know Germany should settle well in the first years, it seems that gaining the best production isn't sufficient. We followed the advice on the Play Book to avoid the Sea Lion til the players reach an advanced experience and always went for historical Barbarossa except once where the German Player built Fortress Europe from spain to Poland and realize the Italian "Mare Nostrum" closing the mediterraneum til '43, when his "Fortress" crumbled.
So I hope in some improvement for Germany, so that they can hope too in the decisive victory.

Regards
Alberto Natta

Ps: There's something I could do to contribute to the development in-deep of this game?


There's not much development going on Alberto, just Rules questions being addressed and errata. Our development energies are being focused on Asia Engulfed and my own Fast Action Battle Series, both to be published by GMT Games in the future (Assuming they get enough P500 orders).
 
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Chris Farrell
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Re:Some Proposals and a question.
Mech Infantry: This is not only somewhat pointless (why pay two for a mech when the armor units are just better for the same cost, and it's so rare to build your entire force pool of tanks?), but also ahistorical. At the level of EE, the "armor" units are already mostly mech and motorized with a few tanks - no WWII tank corps consisted entirely of "armor" divisions.

Mountain Infantry: This is a huge amount of rules grit for almost no payoff, so seems a little dicey.

GSUs: Do you really see that many in play? GSUs are cool but they are pricey, can only be used in the summer, and are very vulnerable when you are on defense. I've never seen any nation even strain the counter limits on GSUs (although as we've been getting better at the game, we build a few more), never mind run up against them. The "elite" Luftwaffe units were deployed as interceptors, not groupd support, which is nicely covered in the existing ME-262 optional rules. The Luftwaffe was eviscerated by the strategic air war by 1943-44 anyway.

There is a new optional rule to allow converting Interceptors to GSUs, which should also get at what you want.
 
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Jon M
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Re:Some Proposals and a question.
Cohen (#51079),

Mountain units are the existing elite infantry - no? Perhaps the easiest thing would be to take a spare Italian block and convert it into an elite infantry (mark it up someway using a circular dot on the back?).

There is also the ability to convert the German paratroopers to a semi-elite type unit in the optional rules.

Having said that this game really lends itself to tweaks, house rules and such like. If you think it would be more fun to play with these optional rules then use them I say.

Re game balance I think the problem is in not threatening Sealion. If there is no threat then the Brits don't leave many units at home and really stretch the axis in the Med. Pull a Sealion and you will see a few more troops staying home next time, making the 1940-1 period in the Med easier for the Axis. Sea-lion is something that is easy to threaten, a single fleet build in 1940 and a few blocks on the embarkation ports (plus two in Belgium - don't have to be paras so long as you don't use them elsewhere).

Also u-boats are the best way to keep the UK honest. You should be able to get them into the 51+ column for at least a time.

The difficult thing for the Axis is learning to defend (as you spend the bulk of the early game attacking). Try playing the 1942 full map scenario out to conclusion a few times to get more experience of defending with the Axis.
 
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