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Subject: Question on 2nd player 1st turn rss

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Michael Knight
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Playing a round of this game this weekend I was the 2nd player and on turn 1 I did not take the builder. Another player who says that all of his extensive research shows that EVERY game on turn one has to be the following: Settler for playe 1, Builder for Player 2 and Mayor for Player 3. I did not take builder for the simple reason of I was not going to build and it did not help me in the least. He went on about how it was the wrong choice because it cost me more to build what I wanted in the long run which it didn't. Dose anyone agree that if you are not going to use it you should not take it but rather take one that is going to be useful?

Or do you agree it has to be a set way?
 
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Dave Eisen
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
Of course, if you are not going to build anything then taking builder is a mistake.

But a free small market is so valuable, it seems that doing anything other than building and taking the market is going to be inferior. The market always way more than pays for itself, even if you pay the doubloon for it, and here you are getting it for free. Build, take the market.

 
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James Stuart
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
drowlover (#53149),

Here's the analysis of the opening moves you want to read over: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/19341

The only other even remotely credible choices is response to 1: Settler are Mayor and Prospector. Alex explains well why the 2nd player mayor is a bad choice (especially when you take into context the importance of early game money), and the Prospector is just like mayor, except that the only benefit is denying player 4 a doubloon, and preventing the early player 3 trade if you think the other players are bad.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
First of all, I think the main thing to question is: why are you not building a building? As player 2 on turn 1, there will always be something beneficial for you to build. Small market is the obvious choice, but even then, small indigo is better than nothing. (Though I would go for the market).

If you really, really, dont want to build, then take the prospector, and dont build in the build phase. Do NOT mayor, as it just hands player 1 a doubloon.
 
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L S
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
One of the most important factors about PR, which took me a while to learn before I came and read some of the excellent strategy articles that have been referenced in this thread, is that money is king in early game. You want to get money and stop your opponents from doing so. Unfortunately, PR is not so broad such that other sorts of strategies are likely to pay off, the same way that in chess there are only a certain set of standard moves.

Builder essentially gives you $1 (because it saves you $1 when you buy). This is a very good thing. In early game, you want to be thinking about generating income, so buying buildings is important. The only time I would pass up buying a building in early game is if I had an unpopulated quarry (e.g. when you pick builder as player #2, player #1 should generally pass and buy his indigo plant in second round after his quarry is populated since that saves him $1).
 
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
drowlover (#53149),

What the previous posters have said is correct. The optimum play for 2nd seat on the fist turn is Builder, Small Market.

HOWEVER.

Don't let that stop you from investigating other moves and experiencing the game for yourself. Alex and Jim wrote their strategy articles after hundreds of games of Puerto Rico. Go ahead and play the game how you choose - to answer you directly, no, it DOES NOT have to be a set way. And NO, there are NO WRONG CHOICES when playing any game. There may be better choices, but no wrong ones. You'll have time later when you'll want to explore the minutae of the strategies. For now, play the game, have fun discovering its ins and outs. The strategy articles will be here for later when you feel ready for them.

Happy gaming,
Fawkes.
 
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James Stuart
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
Fawkes (#53273),

"No wrong choices" depends on some semantic tomfoolery: if we're playing tic-tac-toe, I start in a corner square, and then you play anywhere but the center square, you have assured yourself against a skilled opponent, a loss. In so far as your goal is to win the game, you have committed a wrong (not intended, not wanted) play towards your goal.

There's a separate element of wrong, which carries with it much more of reproving: that chewing with your mouth full is wrong, that peeking at your opponent's cards when he goes to the bathroom is wrong.

By no means, let no one stop you from exploring the game, and different strategies: it's both fun to figure out on your own, and there is of course, the infamous "no one can beat a corn/wharf strategy!" groupthink that percolated around for a while, which shows that even very widely held beliefs can be wrong. If you really think that people are wrong that a first turn Hospice build is suicide, then try it, see what happens, and learn from it.

But you don't need to eliminate the idea of: "Honey, we took a wrong turn! You should have gone north, not south!" to get to those ideas.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
2nd seat not choosing builder, after player 1 settles, is wrong, in the same way that the opening in chess:

1: e4, e5 2: Nf3, f6 is wrong for black. They are the wrong move to make if your goal is to make the move which gives you the greatest chance of winning the game.

(For those who dont know chess openings, white then offers the knight to take the e5 pawn, and if black takes it, white plays Qh5 and black is very screwed, so effectively, it just loses the pawn, and black is in a position where he now needs white to make a mistake, in order to have a chance). I feel this is about how player 2 is in PR, if they take a bad role on turn 1. They were already in the worst spot, and they just missed out on getting a doubloon, and let someone else get it, and the small markets.

You can play this opening in chess, you just wont win against someone good. You can take the mayor as player 2 in PR, you just probably wont win against someone good. (There is more randomness in PR, maybe opponents will make moves that really help you and screw the other guy, so you still might be ok, but why make an inferior move?)
 
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True Blue Jon
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
anonystu (#53396),

If we're playing tic-tac-toe and I start in a corner and then you take the center, I will win.
 
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Eric Nielsen
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
quozl,
X|_|_
_|O|_
_|_|_

Your move.
 
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True Blue Jon
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
paeanblack (#53780),

This is cool!

X|_|_
_|O|_
_|_|X
 
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Jim Campbell
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
quozl (#54744),

So Eric takes any side square and gets a draw. Fun game, though.

Jim
 
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True Blue Jon
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
jimc (#54750),

Correct. However, I'd say about 90% of adults pick a corner square next.
 
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Eric Nielsen
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
X|_|_
O|O|_
_|_|X
 
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
Does Aldie know he has a new online game? meeple
 
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Alex Rockwell
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Re:Question on 2nd player 1st turn
quozl wrote:

Correct. However, I'd say about 90% of adults pick a corner square next.


As in, most people who dont make a 4 ply lookahead will pick a corner...

 
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