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Vietnam 1965-1975» Forums » General

Subject: Short Q:s on Bombardment Missions outside SVN rss

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Per Sylvan
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STOCKHOLM
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1) May the US bombard NLF units in NVN?

I am aware that no US units may ever ENTER Vietnam. However, I am wondering wheter bombarding the North with Artillery is OK (after all it is allowed to air-bombard the North…). I am leaning towards a YES on this question, but maybe there is an official rules clarification on this out there?


2) May the US bombard NLF units in Cambodia or Laos, without first invading these countries?

The rules (16.2) says that hexes in Cambodia or Laos may be INTERDICTED, without triggering an invasion. But what about bombardment?? Here I am more hesitant, therefore, any input would be welcome!
 
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Chris Udziela
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Re:Short Q:s on Bombardment Missions outside SVN
Perry (#54648),

Look at rule 4.3. "Units may attack enemy units ON OR ADJECENT to international border hexes without violating neutrality".

So if you are on a hex with the red line separating SVN and NVN, not only can you bombard against the adjecent hexes, you can attack with organic strength as well.

I guess it is ambiguous as to if it would be okay to use artillery with a longer range. I believe the borders are drawn the way they are to allow units to be attacked as written in the rules; ie, the "true" border with NVN is probably north of where it is drawn on the map.
 
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Per Sylvan
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Re:Short Q:s on Bombardment Missions outside SVN
chrisu99 (#54664),


Thank you for your answer!

Yes, I was aware of 4.3, and had figured out that it is OK to attack with organic strength against enemy units adjacent to international borders.


My problem was with long-range Artillery (175 mm), Air Points and Naval Assets vs NLF Ground units that are MORE THAN 1 hex away from a SVN National boundary hex.


This especially feels wrong with Cambodia and Laos, unless an invasion is currently being staged. Rather frequently I find NVN units lurking around just outside the Trail, often just before an Offensive is about to be declared, but too deep within Cambodia to prevent any ground attacks. If they were subject to Air Bombardment they could be seriously mauled, even stalling the Offensive for a turn or two, until NVN Replacements can be replenished.


Overall, I think the rules are very well written (better written than more "modern" games), and if you just take time to read through them there is seldomly ambiguity (sp?). I’ve just had this one thing on my mind for fifteen years now (when I first got the game) and I needed an answer.
 
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Chris Udziela
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Re:Short Q:s on Bombardment Missions outside SVN
Perry (#54693),

Sorry, I couldn't figure out your question.

The rationale for not entering NVN was fear of raising the ire of the Soviets or the Chinese; the Laotian and Cambodian restrictions seemed to be more political.

Some Vietnam games (and there aren't many) allow you to do ahistorical actions; the VG game sticks more within military options. During the real war, there were many bombing attacks across the border into Laos & Cambodia, and went undiscovered for a long time, but were heavily condemned when discovered. Also, depending on who you believe, there were frequent cross-border incursions into Cambodia.

My inclination would be to not allow support north of the NVN border hexes, but to allow it west of the SVN borders. My guess is that the designer did not want to allow it, or there wouldn't have been the rules for invasions; also, to think about the realness of the game: with no ground forces, how can you target the over the border hexes with a bombardment attack? Perhaps use of support in this way constitutes an invasion.

I save all my air for S & D anyway, so its a moot point in my campaigns.
 
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Chris Udziela
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Re:Short Q:s on Bombardment Missions outside SVN
Perry (#54693),

I'm a fool.

Rereading Tony Curtis's article, "Finding the Tunnel's Light", (and he helped playtest the game), he suggests that a good strategy is to attack NLF units as soon as they leave the safety of the trail boxes. He states "by bombardment attacks ALONE, you can destroy 20-30 strength points a turn". This seems to suggest you can use bombardment without triggering an invasion.

So I guess if it's okay with the designer's playtester, it's okay to do in your campaign.
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Per Sylvan
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Re:Short Q:s on Bombardment Missions outside SVN
chrisu99 (#54894),

Great answers! Thanks alot for your help - it is all clear now! Also, since I have read Tony Curtis’ article myself, I should have remembered that passage myself!

I am now about to begin playing the game again after holding up for 5-6 years. The reason of my questions were that I was thinking that LOTS of minimum bombardment missions (4 post-free fire Artillery Points) could become quite a hassle for the NLF player, if just the US player builds up his Air Points in order to have spare Air points for it…
 
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Chris Udziela
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Re:Short Q:s on Bombardment Missions outside SVN
Perry (#55093),

And remember, outside of SVN, there is automatic Free-Fire, with no penalty.

Check out www.grognard.com, they have a Zip Word file of record sheets for the game. There are a couple of minor errors:

The sheets say NVN starts at 10 commitment and 10 morale, but the rules say it is 0 commitment and 10 morale.

But overall, they help alot in setting up the campaign game.
I also recommend the ADC II module, it is well done, and, for a game of this length, makes setup time shorter.

Good luck!
 
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