Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Memoir '44» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rules question: Counter attack Command Card rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Spyros Gkiouzepas
Greece
THESSALONIKI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
While playing a game the following situation occured: my brother played Artillery Bombardmend Command Card and having no artillery he ordered one infantry unit instead. I (as Allies in Opperation Grenade scenario) played counter attack. I had 3 artillery units.

The question is this: the text on the Counter Attack CC says "issue the same order just played by your your opponent". Does that mean I had to order an infantry unit or duplicate the Command Card, ordering my 3 Artillery units as per Artillery Bombardment Command Card?

The same thing can hapen in simmilar sittuations, like when playing Recon
CC for Air Power CC with Blitz rules or Air Sortie Rules, Counter Attacking an Armor or Infantry Assault ect.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You counter attack the card. It is as if you played the same card he did. So if he played artillery bombard to order any unit of his choice, you could (and would have to) play it for the artillery. This makes "playing garbage" all the more dangerous. I never play an Armor Assault for the 1 unit if my opponent has tanks everywhere for this very reason.

As you pointed out with certain rules like Blitz Rules, a card may be used one of two ways for one side but if it is countered, it may only be availbe as only one option for the other side.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spyros Gkiouzepas
Greece
THESSALONIKI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That is my oppinion too. I just wanted to make sure because the rules don;t seem to cover the subject.

Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barry Ingram
Spain
Barcelona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Greeek geek wrote:
That is my oppinion too. I just wanted to make sure because the rules don;t seem to cover the subject.

Thanks!


Spyros,

The entire effect of the card (counter-attacked) is duplicated.

Check out the official FAQ for further clarification...
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/faq/#cattack
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Spyros Gkiouzepas
Greece
THESSALONIKI
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes that is preety clear. Thanks a lot for your post and the link, I didn't notice the text answered my question directly.

Thanks a lot!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt R
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Another counter-attack question: The situation came up tonight where I played a Mechanics cards to "heal" one of my units and my opponent wanted to play a Counter-Attack card to do the same to one of his units.

Now, healing is not a counter-attack but this is a pretty abstract game so it seemed reasonable to me that he was using a card effectively to get a benefit that he needed. I allowed it.

People ever encounter this before? What did you do?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rob D
United States
Largo
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, I think you would be able to counter the Medics & Mechanics card. Like others have said, it allows you to in essence play the exact same card your opponent just played no matter the card. To take this further, you could counter attack a counter attack card. In your example with M&M, if you got counter attacked after playing that and you had a CA card you could attempt to heal an additional unit if you played the card. So you'd be counter attacking the counter attack card. In reality you're just playing the same exact card your opponent just played..and if he counter-attacked your M&M you'd get the effect of his CA card. Confused yet?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt R
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
budsticky wrote:
Yeah, I think you would be able to counter the Medics & Mechanics card. Like others have said, it allows you to in essence play the exact same card your opponent just played no matter the card. To take this further, you could counter attack a counter attack card. In your example with M&M, if you got counter attacked after playing that and you had a CA card you could attempt to heal an additional unit if you played the card. So you'd be counter attacking the counter attack card. In reality you're just playing the same exact card your opponent just played..and if he counter-attacked your M&M you'd get the effect of his CA card. Confused yet?


No, and I agree!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justus Kelloniemi
Finland
Lappeenranta
Etelä-Karjala
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What about next situation: Allied player announces close assault, which is answered by Ambush card from Axis player. Can the Allied player throw immediately in Counter attack?

And if he can, what happens next. If can't, why?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh
United States
Santa Rosa
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm relatively new to the game, but it seems that this would not be allowed because you are not allow to play a card at this point in the game. The only reason the Ambush card is allowed to be played is because it's text specifically allows it. I would interpret the rules as being that any other card must be played at the beginning of your turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry, I did not see that this thread continued on. The reference to the FAQ that TommieSL has quoted is incorrect. It has been directly refuted by Richard Borg who clarified that the card is still countered - not the effect of the card. However, the Air Pack rules reveresed Richard again and went back to stating the effect is countered, not the card. So we are back to square one until DOW clarifies. I still hold on to the "counter the card and not the effect" as it makes the most sense when scenarios allow different uses of the same card for different sides.

Counter-Attack can be used to duplicate any card just played including "non-combat" type cards like Medics and Mechanics (but remember if you successfully heal the unit, it may still be ordered and can indeed attack).

The ONLY exception to this rule is the Ambush card. The main reason is that you can only play one card per turn. You already issued a command and your opponent played an Ambush; you can't go and play a 2nd card on your turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barry Ingram
Spain
Barcelona
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Where / when was it refuted by Richard?

Are you saying the 'official' FAQ on the DoW web-site is wrong?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TommieSL wrote:
Where / when was it refuted by Richard?

Are you saying the 'official' FAQ on the DoW web-site is wrong?


Yes. I am saying it WAS wrong, is currently muddled, but may be clearly wrong again in the near future.

It was posted by Richard on some random entry on the DOW forums. It will take me a minute to find it again....

EDIT:
Thread 1: http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=72498#msg_72498
Thread 2: http://www.daysofwonder.com/en/msg/?goto=123746#msg_123746

Basically, the FAQ clarified you counter the effect. Richard popped up one day and said that is incorrect, it is the card that is countered. Which makes sense. Why should the Allies be granted more Air Power options when it is meant as an Axis only benefit in certain scenarios?

But then the waters got muddied when the Air Pack came out and the original FAQ was incorporated into the text of the new Air Rules. But then Richard came back out and said the rule as written in the AP is correct (counter the effect); however, there is an exception to this rule in the scenarios that grant special effects (so counter the card).

So to me, it is just easier to say the card is always countered and you don't need to make any exceptions. It already takes into account who can use what cards for what purposes. I have not gotten around to getting an official stance from DOW. As I have learned in both BattleLore and Colosseum, there is the designer's stance and there is DOW's stance. And the DOW stance is the rule of the land.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.