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Descent: Journeys in the Dark» Forums » Rules

Subject: Burn affects monsters when? rss

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Peter Mörck
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Malmö
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Short version:
Does burn affect monster at START of OL players's turn or when the respective monster is activated?

Long verison:
Played today as OL with 3 friends. This was my 4th time playing. We were playing quest 2 in the basic game (I have no expansions). After some minor mistakes with rules we were at a point where I had a Dark Charm card and the last giant's heart was destroyed, he had 1 hp and was on fire.
My turn (OL) begins. Now, when does the burn damage apply?
I would believe that the damage occurs when I activate the monster but the players suggested it might be when it's my turn.
Well, I used the dark charm card and committed suicide with elven bow on one of the heroes, causing them to lose 3 out of 3 conquest tokens, which would mean OL victory. After that I rolled to put out the fire on the giant, failed and he got one damage and died. If this had happened BEFORE I used any card it would mean player victory.

This was a REEEAAAALLY close game and took about 7 hours (2 players were new). Most enjoyable one so far First half of the game I was wondering if this was going to be another walk in the park when they had 15 tokens and getting better. Then suddenly I got all the good cards in the right moment when they revealed new areas. I did miss the point where the 2nd ogre holds the heart to the 2nd giant ( I assumed it was in the treasure chest like the 1st giant) and so I failed to tell the players. At the same time, had I known about it I would have protected the ogre more instead of letting him loose as I did. Maybe if the guys in my group like it enough it'll motivate me to go get an expansion (or two ) ...

Anyway, it feels like kindof a tie since we weren't sure of who won. It really isn't important either but it would be good for future games to know when monster effects are done. I have a faint memory of having read somewhere that you apply the effects when that monster is activated (and I assume you must activate every monster each turn to avoid escaping effects in that case).

Guess this has been answered already but I couldn't find it...

Thanks
 
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John Richard
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The exact text of the rulebook says that "at the start of each of that figure's turns, it's owner must roll a power die...". Since the rules talk about the figure's turn, I would interpret that to mean that (for the OL) the damage isn't assessed until that monster is activated. But, it is a fine line, because what if you choose not to activate the burned figure? It wouldn't make much sense for the figure to get a free turn where it might not be damaged from the fire.

You're right, it's a very tough question of timing. If I were playing it, I would probably allow the OL to play the Dark Charm card for the win. I'm interested to hear others' comments, though!
 
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Sean D.
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Langley
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I think the burn damage would occur at the start of the OL's turn regardless if the monster was activated or not. My logic is that the figure is part of the OL's side and that the damage is calculated during the start of that player's turn vs. the start of a Hero player's turn. Not sure if the FAQ's clarify this at all.
 
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Peter Mörck
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Both your replies make good points. However I still believe the most correct interpretation of the rules would be that the giant would burn when he was activated, and that you HAVE to activate all monsters durin OL turn, even if they remain totally passive. That way the OL would have won.
Of course it would be simpler to make all burns take effect at the start of the OL's turn. Well, I'd still like a definitive answer to this if anyone is able to provide one Thanks for your comments and thoughts so far!
 
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Simon Lundström
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Täby
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Now who are these five?
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I don't have a definite answer, just my interpretation:

Burn affects a chara when he starts his turn. Thus it affects him when HE starts his turn, not when the generic "player" turn starts (as you know, players can freely choose any order in between themselves).

Consequently, the giant burns when the OL activates him, not when the OL turn starts. If you agree that all such effects must be applied as soon as the OL starts his turn, then you must do the same for the players: They must be "burned" when the "player turn" starts, and not after another person has healed them, or thrown them a healing potion or whatever.

If the OL can't do stuff before the burn happens, then players can't.
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Fred Methot
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I'm saying the effect is resolved at the monster activation step (3), whether or not the monster is activated. Step 3 is when "figures" are playing after all.

Also, resolving the effect at the start of the OL turn could create a timing problem with the Dark Balm card (which must be played at the start of the OL turn), which allows the OL to remove all effect tokens from a monster... I'm thinking that card objective is to prevent the effect of lingering tokens before they have a chance to be applied. I'm also thinking that if it was to be applied at the start of the OL turn (and not at the activation step), Kevin would have worded it saying "at the start of the player's next turn...)

That's my understanding though and I respect other's way of playing this entirely.

Cheers!
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i.a.m wrote:
Also, resolving the effect at the start of the OL turn could create a timing problem with the Dark Balm card (which must be played at the start of the OL turn)


This wouldn't cause a problem because the order that events occur at the start of a turn are decided by player. Thus the OL could clear off the effects without getting burned even if they occurred at the start of the turn.

FAQ v1.2 wrote:

Q: What is the proper timing of events that occur “at the
beginning of a player’s turn”?
A: When multiple events may occur “at the beginning of
a player’s turn,” such as a hero affected by multiple different
status effects like Burn and Bleed, that player may
decide in which order to resolve them. The player must
resolve all “start of turn” effects before proceeding with
the rest of his turn.
 
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