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Race for the Galaxy» Forums » Variants

Subject: San Juan variant? rss

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Oskar Krantz
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This seems like a pretty natural variant, but i haven't seen it suggested before...

Haven't tried this myself, but wouldn't it be possible to play rftg more like san juan or puerto rico by using just one set of action cards? You would take turns choosing one of the available actions, getting the bonus and letting everyone perform the action. Everything else would be the same.

I imagine this would lead to a longer game with more obvious player interaction and screwage opportunities. devil
 
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B C Z
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I spent a few minutes thinking about this, and realized that there are some significant questions to answer prior to making a workable 'SJ-like' version of RftG.

I truly wonder if it's worth the effort since it would probably water down an incredible game, but it's a thought experiment I'll continue when I get some spare cycles.
 
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A L D A R O N
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Why would you want to do this? The existing rule for action selection is one of the biggest improvements over San Juan.
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Michael J
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I've been wondering this too. I don't see why having a common set of action cards wouldn't work. Seems like it adds to the interaction factor and "screwage" opportunities as Oskar has pointed out. And what about the option to prevent others from choosing using an action at all if you chose it? I wonder how that would play out.

Ron, I am wondering why you think the new action mechanism was one of the biggest improvements. I didn't play San Juan, so I'd like you to elaborate on that, if possible.

Mike
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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I think RftG is far enough removed from San Juan with the consume powers/phase that taking actions in turn would break the game completely. 'Trading' isn't a special ability in San Juan, which would break it.

But I'm sure it could be fixed! Give people the choice to either trade or consume but not both if someone takes T/C, and have to consume if someone takes Cx2. But it's just not the same game anymore. Being able take different special abilities for certain phases like explore and consume was a huge leap forward that will be difficult to leap back from.
 
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Chris Kessel
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Aldaron wrote:
Why would you want to do this? The existing rule for action selection is one of the biggest improvements over San Juan.


It's certainly the biggest change. I'm not sure about biggest improvement. I liked my one playing of RFTG, but it has almost zero player interaction and even less ability to actually affect someone specifically.

It's a nice multiplayer solitaire game. You can gain an edge with the mental "I know that you know that I know that you know that I know you have to pick so I can pick this other thing instead." A small gain for yourself, but you can't really deny someone else a move.

Once there are 8-10 cards per player on the board, trying to track what every player might want to do is a bit exhausting anyway for a relatively light and quick game.
 
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david funch
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Yeah, this is a horrible idea. Let's all go back to the strategy of sitting to the left new player so people stop complaining about multiplayer solitare.shake

 
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A L D A R O N
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ckessel wrote:
It's certainly the biggest change. I'm not sure about biggest improvement. I liked my one playing of RFTG, but it has almost zero player interaction and even less ability to actually affect someone specifically.

That's not been my experience at all. Watching what other players are doing and guessing what actions they will select so you can parasitize them (while at the same time bluffing about what actions you are likely to select) is a core feature of the game.
 
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Chris Kessel
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Aldaron wrote:
ckessel wrote:
It's certainly the biggest change. I'm not sure about biggest improvement. I liked my one playing of RFTG, but it has almost zero player interaction and even less ability to actually affect someone specifically.

That's not been my experience at all. Watching what other players are doing and guessing what actions they will select so you can parasitize them (while at the same time bluffing about what actions you are likely to select) is a core feature of the game.


Yea, I covered that in the "I know that you know that I'm going to play X, etc, etc". You still can't affect them. You can ride their coat tails to your own advantage, but you can't actually do anything to hamper the other player. If you get a couple players trying to outguess each other you basically get a rock/paper/scissors situation where you and the other player are craftily picking the wrong things while the player ignoring you both does just fine.

Not necessarily a bad thing. A decent multi-player solitaire game is a nice filler game.
 
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Warren Cheung
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When I first saw this topic, I thought it was the other way around - how would San Juan play with simultaneous action selection. But I guess that would probably go under the San Juan forums?
 
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Philip Goldfarb Styrt
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ckessel wrote:
You still can't affect them.


I disagree. I've played many games in which they were "affected", either more directly because I Consumed when they had Settled for a windfall (and so they couldn't trade it) or I didn't develop/settle/produce when they were counting on it, screwing up their plan, or simply because I leeched off their develop/settle so well that the game ended well before they had anything set up.
 
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B C Z
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For those not realizing, the following two threads were my attempt to make a 'San Juan' variant... and the ultimate conclusion I came to is that you really can't do it.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/275177 (Part I)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/275840 (Part II)

The two games are different enough to be their own thing, and the simultaneous selection of Actions, and the guarentee of having an action you want be available is ingrained so heavily in the system that you simply cannot escape it without a major redesign of the entire game.

As the main splash for RftG says:
Quote:
Race for the Galaxy benefits from an unusually thorough development process, involving thousands of test games and the deliberate design of an unusually coherent iconography (by onigame and the graphics designer, Mirko Suzuki) as well as a unique approach to player interaction that prevents direct conflict and encourages "parasitic conflict".
 
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