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Subject: Question about Sorcerer Varient in Face to Face Game rss

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Marshall P.
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I'm going to be running some werewolf games for about 15 newbies this Saturday and I'm thinking about what roles to use. Of course I'm going to keep it simple and straight forward, but I thought if we play several games I might start to introduce some more basic roles like Sorcerer.

So anyway, I had this idea. What if instead of looking for the Seer the Sorcerer gets to try to view the wolves. I'm wondering what effect this would have on the game, it seems like it might be better to me. Because if the sorcerer finds the seer pretty much all he does is reveal to get the seer lynched then he won't be eaten by the wolves.

But if the Sorcerer were to view and find a wolf that would make things interesting. Because, of course the Sorcerer would try to communicate with the wolf, to let the wolf know not to eat him. That opens up the possibility of the Seer actually revealing to a wolf as a sorcerer if the Seer gets a positive view. From the wolf point of view it seems like you could never be fully certain whether it was a Sorcerer or a Seer trying to contact you.

I don't know. It seems like it would make things more interesting and give some motivation for covert communication if the Sorcerer were viewing wolves instead of the Seer. Is there any downside to this varient?
 
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J
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so it's sort of a weakened cultist? sounds cool.

 
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Terri K
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Sounds more like a traitor or cultist role. Since you are playing with newbies no real need to be anal with the role name (like I am being), as long as people understand what roles are in the game AND everyone has fun, go with how you want to explain it ... It does sound like a VERY neat variant to play!
 
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Dwight Mendenhall
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so basically... an evil seer that tries to find their wolves... I would have them be a traitor, but with seer ablitities...
 
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Val K
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So wait, you want them to like werewolf or run screaming with their bloody brain bits in their hands?
 
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Val K
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.. sorry about that last post.. I can see how silly it was. you want both, of course.

 
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Val K
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Wightwolf wrote:
so basically... an evil seer that tries to find their wolves... I would have them be a traitor, but with seer abilities...

You should try something like that in one of your games Dwight.
 
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Marshall P.
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Wightwolf wrote:
so basically... an evil seer that tries to find their wolves... I would have them be a traitor, but with seer ablitities...


Thanks, sounds like I used the wrong role name. It doesn't really matter what the role is called though, I was just wondering if that ability would break something in the game. It doesn't sound like it. And I think it sounds more interesting than searching for the seer (which I've never seen the sorcerer find in time to make any difference anyway).
 
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Marshall P.
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Valkerie32 wrote:
So wait, you want them to like werewolf or run screaming with their bloody brain bits in their hands?


I don't think it's too bad. I ran some newbie games with a different group a couple of weeks ago. I had to use a vigilante because we had an even number. And by the third game I added a normal sorcerer. It didn't seem to make it too complex at all. I was thinking of doing the same thing next time. By the third game or so, if everybody seems to be picking it up, add another role. Maybe masons, or a bodyguard, or a hunter, or this sorcerer varient I was thinking of. I don't know which yet, it'll depend on how the earlier games went, which side was winning.
 
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Terri K
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mdp4828 wrote:
And I think it sounds more interesting than searching for the seer (which I've never seen the sorcerer find in time to make any difference anyway).

During BGG.Con 06 (I think it was 06) I was sorc and found the seer for my wolves AND got them lynched too! It was great because I think that was also the last mislynch we needed for one of the wolves to come out and say this guy needs to be voted on, so I did and we won!
 
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Greg Payne
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The role, as you describe it, is neither broken nor useless, so it should work well, assuming that that player realises that they are evil.

One thing that you could try, though, is a sorceror that can see both. I don't know how much more powerful or complicated it would be, but it could be interesting...
 
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Marshall P.
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So, I played two games with this sorcerer varient last night. Overall, the game of werewolf was very well received by the crowd, who were primarily not gamers. The sorcerer role, however, was not particularly understood. In the two games the sorcerer never once tried to emulate the seer. Nor did the sorcerers ever identify their wolf teammates. In one game the sorcerer got lynched about round three. In the other he got eaten about round 4. So the varient didn't have any impact on the game really.

One interesting thing that happened though was in a game where I was the seer. I checked the person to my right and found them to be a villager, so I whispered to her on day one that I was the seer. Then on night 2 I tried to point to a person two places to my left who I thought was acting suspicious. I got the werewolf sign from the mod, but it turns out he had misunderstood who I was pointing to. He thought I was pointing to the guy to my immediate left.

So anyway, the next day I tell the villager to my right that I hit a wolf and ask her to reveal as seer. She does, the village is skeptical, however, because the target puts up a good defense, and they almost try to lynch the fake seer (these are newbies remember). I step in and lay out the logic of the situation, that with an uncontested seer claim the only thing to do is lynch the supposed wolf. Finally, we get him lynched and he turns up as a villager. Oh shit, I figure out what must have happened with the mistaken view from the mod.

That night the wolves obviously believe that the woman to my right is the sorcerer and they don't eat her. They eat some random other woman who turns out to be the vigilante. Well, the vigilante kills the woman to my right who turned out to be a villager obviously. Now things are really confusing, and I decide to just come out as the seer, lay out the case for what might have happened, and trade myself for the one wolf that has to be to my left.

The village is not super happy about following my advice again however. And most of them are really confused now anyway and think I'm obfusacting on purpose. Once again, there's talk of lynching me, the uncontested seer. But I finally talk them into lynching the guy to my left and sure enough he's a wolf. Before the end of the day I make sure I tell everybody who my third view was (the night the vigilante was eaten) and that she's safe. I say it a couple of times.

That night I'm eaten. The sorcerer stayed stone quiet through the whole thing even though he really could have caused a lot of FUD by claiming seer in the midst of that debacle. He's the one who ended up getting eaten later in the game. Anyway, the game makes it to the final three including the woman I pointed out as safe. Everyone seems to have forgotten that, however, and she gets lynched for a wolf win.

Despite the mis-view (or maybe because of it) it turned out to be quite an interesting game. I think everyone enjoyed it.
 
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Chris B
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mdp4828 wrote:
The sorcerer role, however, was not particularly understood. In the two games the sorcerer never once tried to emulate the seer.


You might have tried smacking them in the back of the head. But even that didn't work for Jeremy at Midsouthcon last year.

Seriously though, I think it's just too much at once to expect a newbie to pick up subtle strategies that we use and consider routine to this point. One concern is that newbies seem to concentrate way too much on keeping themselves alive. Thinking that this is the main goal of the game. I always try to emphasize certain things that we consider very basic.
 
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Damien Browne
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Had I read this thread early enough that was the one thing I would have pointed out - that in my larger games (bigger than 5) no sorc ever seems to emulate the seer.
Heck I've had games where the seer FOUND the last wolf, and still wouldn't reveal.

As the mod, with the seer up for lynch I'm dropping hints thick as honey.
"Just before you die, is there something you'd like to tell the village?"
That didn't work.
"Perhaps you have some information they need to hear?"

Nope. Seer got lynched, and the seer knew who the last wolf was. Fortunately for the seer, it left the wolf vs hunter.
 
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