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Combat Commander: Mediterranean» Forums » General

Subject: Too hard on the French? rss

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Tom Grant
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I've played three scenarios of the Mediterranean expansion, two with the French. Am I the only person who feels the 1 card discard allowance is a bit too harsh an appraisal of the French army at the tactical level? The same question might be asked about the Allied minors who are represented in CC:M by the French cards and units.
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Justin Heimburger
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As I understand, the French were a pretty strong fighting force early in the war, but once the Germans occupied France, that was pretty much it. But you'll notice that the Free French get to discard one card, even if they've already played orders on that turn, which is pretty powerful, if you ask me.

It seems like the way to counteract the limitation is to play orders as much as possible, even if you play it to little or no effect, and look for ways to get rid of cards via Actions.
 
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Doug Adams
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I agree that it is too harsh to penalise an entire nation with a one card discard. The scenarios I've played as the French seem to be well balanced, despite all the inward screaming at discard capability. You can talk about card flow, etc, but it's still easy to get your hand totally clogged.
 
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David desJardins
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I have come to be not so excited about playing the French, after playing through most of the CC:M scenarios with French forces, at least once. I think they are too luck dependent, for my tastes. On average, they may do ok, but they have a much higher chance of being completely hosed in the initial card draw, or on a subsequent turn when they have played several cards and need to draw all new cards. Get a bad draw and you may be able to do literally nothing for several consecutive turns.

The Italians are fine, their discard restriction is difficult too, but much more manageable.
 
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Jan Vater
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although i can see the point of deliberately weakening the french fate deck with regard to the overall deck ranking and general play balance, it will inevitably lead to a lot of SSRs when designing scenarios dealing with some of the more respectable units on the 'french' side. e.g. the french colonial troops (Spahis Marocains, Tirailleurs Sénégalais, Chasseurs a piéd etc.), belgian chasseurs ardennais, the norwegian royal guard, polish dismounted cavalry and many more.
it's true, the german warmachine did crush their early-war enemies quite quickly but at a cost, thanks to the stubborn resistance of some of the soldiers they encountered. since CC is a game of small-unit, tactical infantry engagements, it seems odd to try and incorporate the political and strategic greater picture into these firefights.

so, even though Chad mentioned the difficulties when playing the 'french' in his design notes, i think David really has a point here.

p.s.
Chad, when you read this, please consider how the great Steve McQueen once put it: it's a soldier's right to complain... (think it's in 'The Great Escape' ?)
 
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Chadwik
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No worries here, Jan.

The French & Allied Minor faction is what it is. Some folks won't like taking up the challenge of a 1 discard and that's okay: there are plenty of other scenarios and other factions with which to have fun.

Personally I enjoy just such a challenge, and it makes the win just that much sweeter.
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Richard Pardoe
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Radetzkymarsch wrote:
it will inevitably lead to a lot of SSRs when designing scenarios dealing with some of the more respectable units on the 'french' side.


A lot of SSRs? The Free French OOB rule of 1 discard even when playing an order seems to be a good start towards dealing with these respectable units.

One of the things I like about the CC system is the ability to add a few SSRs to spice up a scenario. So don't really think this is really a bad thing. And I bet 80% of the desired gameplay affect can be achieved with one or two SSRs.
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Jan Vater
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richard,

i have to admit i haven't thought of the 'Free French Special Rule'. seems to address my objections quite thoroughly, giving the frenchies a bit more of a chance, especially when they're on the attack. it just occured odd to me that one would have to improve the chances of a certain deck by SSR and thus add to the overall number of SSRs.

i think the most intriguing aspect of CC is the way good ole' 'fire and maneuver' is modeled. there's no simple 'death star' solution to winning a firefight here, no HMG+MMG+LMG to stack with those three 5-6-8 squads and that 10-3 leader to squeeze in that key position. movement of troops in a defensive position is not restricted to a mere skulking to and fro but can really make a difference when changing cover, repositioning a leader or simply luring fire cards out of your unweary oppponent's hand.

the system works amazingly well and obviously gets better the more cards you have to play from your hand, thus increasing your options what to do next. with that in mind, the french deck is, as Chad put it, a 'challenge'. organizing an attack with that deck under pressure of limited time is hard to do and the Free French SR might indeed serve well as a semi-official improvement for the élite units of the allied minors.

so, objection withdrawn.
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Alec Clair
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Kingdaddy wrote:
I've played three scenarios of the Mediterranean expansion, two with the French. Am I the only person who feels the 1 card discard allowance is a bit too harsh an appraisal of the French army at the tactical level? The same question might be asked about the Allied minors who are represented in CC:M by the French cards and units.


Agreed 100%

I see no reasons to penalised so harshly the french at such a tactical level. Specially compared to other nations.

There's no questions that the french army performed very poorly as a whole, nor that the politicians were pathetic. But at company level the leadership wher decent on average and certainly no so lousy compared to the other nations in 1940. When reading historical accounts at such a small scale you can surely find examples of poor leadership but you can also easily find example of decent leadeship.

Although it may offer interesting challenges from a gamer point of view.

All of this sound like clichés to me.
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