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Carcassonne: Expansion 5 – Abbey & Mayor» Forums » Rules

Subject: Does the Abbey separate farms? rss

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Justin Heimburger
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It seems natural that it should, since it separates cities.

We had a situation during a game last night where the abbey, if it joined the farms, would have added a competitor's barn into my farm (6 or 7 complete cities). In the end, we didn't allow it, but the rules are unclear at best about this situation.

It makes sense to me that since the abbey separates cities, it should also separate farms, not join them. Her argument was that since the only tile that would fit into that space was the cloister with one road coming out of it (fffr). That kind of makes sense, but then the peice could pretty much function as whatever a player would want, i.e."I want to connect these two city sides, and cut these two out."

What does everyone think?
 
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Tim Rogers
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I think one needs to treat the abbey as a terminator of all things. That being said, I think farms definitely end there. This is how we play, but perhaps someone with more authority could chime in here. Or, perhaps this question has been asked before and someone has already commented.
 
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Dave Wilson
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This was discussed some in this thread, as well.
 
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Justin Heimburger
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daw65 wrote:
This was discussed some in this thread, as well.


There doesn't appear to be anything conclusive there, either. Everyone says "I play it this way" but there's nothing official. It makes sense to me that it would terminate farms if it terminates cities.

The rule states that the abbey closes off all features that it touches, but how often do you actually complete a farm? Do you even really consider it a feature simlar to a road, city or cloister? The rule is unclear when it comes to farms. If the farm is contiguous around the abbey, the question is moot.

As someone mentioned in the other thread, the abbey isn't considered or implied to be a city tile (or a farm tile, in this case) but the rules also don't say that it ISN'T those things. Only that it goes into a hole and closes off things that touch it...
 
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brian
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A farm is bounded by open edges and along the borders of any other feature. Since an Abbey falls under the "other feature," it would present a border to that farm.

A farm would only be "closed" if there is no other means of adding on to that farm. It isn't necessarily "closed" the moment an abbey touches it.

And for that matter, maybe I am missing some point here, but an Abbey that touches other features, that feature is not "closed and scored," it is only "closed on that side." So roads and cities can continue to be added to and if the only open portion of that feature was along the space just filled by an Abbey, then the feature is completely closed and scored.

So are people thinking that as soon as an Abbey touches something, all those adjacent features are closed and scored? And if that is not the concern, then what is the concern?
 
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Justin Heimburger
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
A farm is bounded by open edges and along the borders of any other feature. Since an Abbey falls under the "other feature," it would present a border to that farm.
...
So are people thinking that as soon as an Abbey touches something, all those adjacent features are closed and scored? And if that is not the concern, then what is the concern?


I started out using the term "completes" instead of "closes", but changed to the latter when it occurred to me that the abbey only completes the features it touches when they're otherwise finished. I should have been more precise when I said that it closes features.

Thanks for the help on farms. That expresses my thoughts, but I was having a tough time articulating it properly.

My friend actually wanted the Abbey to join to unconnected farms so her barn could also score points for the cities that touched the farm where my barn was.
 
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brian
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Yeah, I think (at least from reading people's comments on different threads) that the word choice used in the rules is causing confusion.

The Abbey presents 4 "closing edges" to any feature they touch. An Abbey is it's own feature that is neither a cloister, road, field or city. So it never extends any of those other features.

I think in trying to present the rules, they were thinking that in most cases, you ar going to be using the Abbey to fill holes where you have all these "dangling" features. "I can't close this city where my meeple is trapped because I need the perfect tile with the road heading out to the left there." There are going to be plenty of cases though, where the feature can still be completed away from the Abbey side.
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Tyler Kinsherf
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Same argument here:
A: The Abbey connects the farm and Black and Green tie.
B: The Abbey cuts it off

My argument is for B where the picture and example in the rule book makes it clear the tile is not in anyway the feature that it is touching, so it would not be a field. In the example it was not a Road for scoring purposes. If you translate that same logic to ALL features and not just roads then the abbey is not a city, and it is not a field. If it is not a field it would not expand/connect.

Again it may be argued that a field isn't a feature since they are never "complete" but we are interested in both sides.
 
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