Francis K. Lalumiere
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In the basic game, as well as in the first two expansions, the reference cards were printed in vibrant colors on glossy cardboard.
The reference cards that came with my copy of expansion #3 were printed in washed-out colors, on what almost feels like moist paper (and not glossy at all).
Is it a defective batch, or were they all printed like this?
 
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brian
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Mine was printed this was as well.

In addiiton, the rulebook was now glossy and more flimsy as well. The original rulebooks were stiffer and had a matte finish.
 
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I noted this as well. Possibly, there was a mix-up on which items were supposed to be printed on coated and uncoated paper stocks.

I would have preferred that the items be consistent from one set to the next as well, but, so long as the information they contain is good, I can live with it.

If it really is just an error in printing on different paper stocks, it will hopefully be corrected in a future edition...
 
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Andrew C
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This bugs me too. I love GMT, am a huge supportor, and usually I'm not overly bothered by errata etc. But this has to be considered one of their 'flagship' offerings. They should offer to reprint and ship new charts out.
 
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Daniel Corban
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And here I thought it was annoying that they included all the expansion units on the base game and expansion #1 reference charts. I guess they might have a purpose now.
 
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What's the consensus here? Has this affected everyone's copy so far?

Thanks,
Adam.
 
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Wes Nott
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Adam Parker wrote:
What's the consensus here? Has this affected everyone's copy so far?

Thanks,
Adam.


Yes, it appears that the material used to make the rulebook and player aids in Expansion 3 is different than what was used in the base game, expansion 1, and expansion 2.

I don't know about the paper being "moist" (what do you mean, was it wet? or is this an industry paper term) as mine was dry, and I didn't notice any washed out colors.

It must be noted that the player aid and rulebooks included in expansion 3 are still 100% functional.

 
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Mike Kozlowski
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So I just rushed over to my Expansion #3 box to see how bad these defective, inferior quality things were... and then I laughed when I found out.

The player reference cards are on matte cardstock instead of glossy; they don't match the earlier ones, but they're in no way inferior (in fact, I think they actually look better). They're still heavy stock, they're still printed in full color. If the early ones had come like this and they'd switched to the glossy one, someone would have created a thread about how the later ones were cheaper feeling.

The rulebook is glossier and maybe a little lighter in stock, but still nothing that'd excite comment by itself; it's very much on par with your typical Euro manual.

This isn't worth worrying about, and it's nothing that I think anyone has to "correct."
 
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Joel Tamburo
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This is taking the usual BGG "bits obsession" to the level of the absurd.
 
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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mkozlows wrote:
So I just rushed over to my Expansion #3 box to see how bad these defective, inferior quality things were... and then I laughed when I found out.

The player reference cards are on matte cardstock instead of glossy; they don't match the earlier ones, but they're in no way inferior (in fact, I think they actually look better). They're still heavy stock, they're still printed in full color. If the early ones had come like this and they'd switched to the glossy one, someone would have created a thread about how the later ones were cheaper feeling.

The rulebook is glossier and maybe a little lighter in stock, but still nothing that'd excite comment by itself; it's very much on par with your typical Euro manual.

This isn't worth worrying about, and it's nothing that I think anyone has to "correct."

All I know is that my copies of the reference cards are printed on what feels like lighter stock, have a matte finish and have washed-out colors (the background white, also, is not as white as the previous ones, which looked immaculate).
So no, they're not "defective," but they're not as nice as the previous ones. That's all I said.
 
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Chris Docherty
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I have to say that I probably wouldn't have noticed the difference if it hadn't been mentioned here. It doesn't really upset me.

After our second game tonight I mentioned this to my girlfriend who flew into a rage and vowed to never again play such a flawed game.

I hope you're happy.




etc.
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Daniel Corban
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Joelist wrote:
This is taking the usual BGG "bits obsession" to the level of the absurd.

Well, I am not sure how many people intend to pay $60 for the ruleset. We can get the rules to games easily. We purchase games for the components. When these components are not what we expect, it is no more absurd to comment on them than it is to comment on some slightly stale bread. Yes, we can eat it and it provides the same function as fresh bread, but we didn't intend to purchase stale bread. We bought bread from this same person 3 times previously and each time it was fresh and soft! Now, the fourth time we buy bread, it is a little hard and not as enjoyable. Why is it absurd that we comment on this discrepancy?
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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I'm with you Dan. It's amazing how a simple comment (be it on components quality or anything else) always seems to send some people on a rampage.

Perhaps that's because we've seen some behavioral patterns here on the Geek (and everywhere else, for that matter) and we tend to assume that those same patterns are being repeated whenever someone starts a post with "One of the components didn't look as good as the previous ones" or "This company's last game came with player aids"...

I think we (and I do mean WE as in "myself included") sometimes stop reading and just assume that it's another hollow rant or complaint, when in fact, sometimes, it's simply a comment or a question.

 
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Joel Tamburo
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If you don't think a thread where people moan about what weight of cardstock is used on a reference card and whether the rulebook paper is glossy enough or "thick" enough is not obsessing on bits, I don't know what obsessing means to you.

Neither item mentioned has any effect whatsoever on play or usability. In fact, many people LIKE less gloss on play aids and rulebooks (because the glossy stuff can be hard to read under lights). As was already mentioned, had the rules and play aids been the same in prior releases no one would have even noticed.

That is why this is at the absurd level.
 
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weishaupt wrote:

I think we (and I do mean WE as in "myself included") sometimes stop reading and just assume that it's another hollow rant or complaint, when in fact, sometimes, it's simply a comment or a question.


Yeah, it's not like anyone said "They should offer to reprint and ship new charts out" or anything...

It's an interesting (to obsessives like me) note that Exp #3 comes with a glossy manual and matte reference cards, but it's a remarkably silly complaint.

(As a side note, holy cow, buying the core game and all the expansions in one swoop has set me up with a massive stickering backlog. Ye gads.)
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Joelist wrote:

Neither item mentioned has any effect whatsoever on play or usability.


Well, the thing is, if they printed the rulebook in B&W, or bound it with a staple in the upper left corner, or whatever... I can see that as a complaint. But this is really just a perfectly valid stylistic choice that's different, not worse.
 
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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Joelist wrote:
If you don't think a thread where people moan about what weight of cardstock is used on a reference card and whether the rulebook paper is glossy enough or "thick" enough is not obsessing on bits, I don't know what obsessing means to you.

Neither item mentioned has any effect whatsoever on play or usability. In fact, many people LIKE less gloss on play aids and rulebooks (because the glossy stuff can be hard to read under lights). As was already mentioned, had the rules and play aids been the same in prior releases no one would have even noticed.

That is why this is at the absurd level.


Joel, I think you're one example of "reading what you think is there" as opposed to reading what's actually been written in the post.

I asked if I were the only one who got reference cards printed on matte paper with colors that were not as vibrant as ALL the previous reference cards. I asked if they were all printed like this, or if I got a strange batch.
That's all I asked. And I get flamed for this. Well, thanks a lot, friend.

Some people could have called you "careless" because you didn't notice that the reference cards were not the same, or said you're just not as observant as some of us can be. But I didn't see anyone treating you like shit.

And your comment is dead on: OF COURSE I wouldn't have asked if all the reference cards had always been like that. That was the point of my post: the NEW ones are different.

But since you don't actually read posts, I shouldn't be surprised that you didn't get this. In fact, why don't you go ahead and imagine that all of use who have simply said "yeah, they're different" have clamored for replacements and called GMT names.

And *I'm* the obsessive guy?

 
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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mkozlows wrote:
Joelist wrote:

Neither item mentioned has any effect whatsoever on play or usability.


Well, the thing is, if they printed the rulebook in B&W, or bound it with a staple in the upper left corner, or whatever... I can see that as a complaint.

Here's that word again.
Wow. Can't get through. I'm off.
Keep on truckin'.
 
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weishaupt wrote:

Here's that word again.
Wow. Can't get through. I'm off.
Keep on truckin'.


Consider that you are not the only person posting on this thread, and people may be responding to others.
 
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Adam Parker
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weishaupt wrote:
The reference cards that came with my copy of expansion #3 were printed in washed-out colors, on what almost feels like moist paper (and not glossy at all).
Is it a defective batch, or were they all printed like this?


I got a reply on this from GMT.

The only difference between the written components of Expansions 2 and 3 is that a different printer contactor was used.

This accounts for different paper stock but no one else seems to mention their ref cards as being "washed out and moist". This may indeed be a one off fault for you Francis.

I just bought both Expansions 2 and 3 today but won't get around to looking at them for a while.

I trust if anything is faulty GMT can be contacted and a solution found. I see plenty of evidence of this on the forums.
 
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I'm really surprised that no one has mentioned another egregious lack-of-consistency production flaw with Expansion #3...this box is bigger than the original game and Expansion #1!

Did I get a defective box, or is everyone's like that?

I mean, when I stack the games on a shelf in my closet, this one juts out and they just don't align at all.

This really bugs me, and I've lost sleep at night over this issue.

This is a great system, but the box size totally ruins the game for me.

If Expansion #2's box is like this, I won't be purchasing it at all!

GMT should do the right thing and reprint the box exactly the same size as the first two and then send them out to everyone for free.

I am contemplating a worldwide boycott of GMT - I will post the campaign link here once the site is active.

Maybe we can lobby for Rio Grande to takeover GMT - wouldn't that be great!! kiss



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Mike Kozlowski
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Expansions #2 and #3 are the same size as the base game (2nd edition) box, but Expansion #1 is slightly smaller.
 
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mkozlows wrote:
Expansions #2 and #3 are the same size as the base game (2nd edition) box, but Expansion #1 is slightly smaller.


My first print of C&C:A is in a box that is the same (smaller) size as Exp #1. I believe a more accurate statement would be that in the time between the printing of Expansion #1 and the reprint of the base game, they switched to using a slightly larger box size for all C&C:A games.

 
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