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Subject: Distribution of cards in a sealed deck rss

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Red Moss
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I am using Netseal to generate random starters. I am unsure about the distribution of cards though.

Can anyone who has a couple of starters (basic set) tell me if this corp deck seems right - this seems to have too much ICE and too few Upgrades.

8 Agenda ( )
9 Operations
30 ICE
11 Nodes
2 Upgrades

Thanks.
 
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Simon Johnston
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Oldstench wrote:
9 Operations
38 ICE
11 Nodes
2 Upgrades

You forgot Agendas!
 
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Red Moss
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Just take 8 of those ICE and make them Agenda. I miscounted.
 
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I think you need more agendas. Unless all 8 are 3 pointers. I got that from the Corp rules here:

http://www.runners-net.com/rulebook/F_NR_Rulebook_7.htm#CORP...

 
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Red Moss
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Right - I understand the necessity for X amount of Agenda based on the size of the deck. What I am more curious about is the general distribution of card types in a real Starter Deck.

I am going to be playing this over Magic Workstation and just want to make sure that the Sealed Deck generator program I am using makes believable Starter Decks. It works by putting X amount of Commons, Uncommons, Rares, and Vitals into both the Runner and Corp decks, but I don't think that it cares about the amount of each card type. I just want to get a feel for what the actual starters have in them so that I can judge the quality of the output.

Thanks for the help.
 
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AFAIK "type" didn't really matter, you got what you got.

Here is an analysis someone did on a 6 pack of starters. You can see that your deck is pretty ice heavy in comparison.

http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9605b&L=netru...

I'll poke around a bit more cause now I'm curious. I have been playing with MWS myself as well as Netseal, and I haven't had any "unplayable" decks. I have never seen a runner deck without at least each type of icebreaker, and I don't think I've seen any that ice heavy, but that may be just luck.
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Paul Humphreys
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Razmus wrote:
Here is an analysis someone did on a 6 pack of starters. You can see that your deck is pretty ice heavy in comparison.

http://oracle.wizards.com/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind9605b&L=netru...


That’s an interesting article Razmus, thanks for posting the link. I prefer playing with custom made Starter style decks but have been wondering about my deck construction percentage mix. According to the statistical analysis featured on that page, my deck is more or less correct. My Corp deck for example contains:

Corp Deck
13 Nodes = 21.6% - AVERAGE 18%
5 Bits
3 Ambush
6 Misc

9 Ops = 15% - AVERAGE 18%

24 Ice = 40% - AVERAGE 39%
5 Code Gate
4 Walls
15 Sentry

2 Upgrades = 3.3% - AVERAGE 6%

12 Agendas = 20% - AVERAGE 19%
 
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Red Moss
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Thanks for that link. Using it as a guide, I wrote a program to do analysis of 5 randomly generated Corp decks made with Netseal.

Here are the results:


--------------------Ice---------------------- ---------Op---------
#Cards Rez$ $/Card Str. Str./Card $/Str. #Cards Use$ $/Card
27 118 4.37 93 3.44 1.27 11 19 1.73
23 84 3.65 68 2.96 1.24 13 28 2.15
27 95 3.52 91 3.37 1.04 10 28 2.8
26 95 3.65 82 3.15 1.16 9 25 2.78
21 78 3.71 58 2.76 1.34 12 42 3.5

---------Node-------- ----------------------Agenda-----------------------
#Cards Rez$ $/Card #Cards Advance $/Card Points Pts./Card $/Point
9 7 .78 11 53 4.82 26 2.36 2.04
10 16 1.6 11 50 4.55 25 2.27 2
8 12 1.5 11 49 4.45 21 1.91 2.33
12 9 .75 11 48 4.36 23 2.09 2.09
13 20 1.54 11 49 4.45 22 2 2.23

-------Upgrade------
#Cards Rez$ $/Card Total$
2 3 1.5 200
3 1 .33 179
4 3 .75 187
2 4 2 181
3 3 1 192


A couple of things stand out to me:

d10-1 3/5 decks are illegal. They don't have the proper amount of agenda points.
d10-2 Compared to the analysis link you posted Razmus, 2/5 decks don't follow the same pattern regarding Upgrades. They have fewer than 3 Upgrades.
d10-3 What isn't shown here is that Netseal did an excellent job of distributing Ice types. Except in two cases there was an almost perfect spread of Sentries, Walls, and Code Gates, if a bit skewed towards Sentries.

I think I might work on a new version of NetSeal to see if I can get it to always give a legal amount of agenda points.

I will modify the program tomorrow to do Runner deck analysis.
 
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Made up a quicky excel file to count the ag points and types in 36 corp decks.


Agendas Ice Node Ops Upgrade Ag Points
12 26 10 10 2 30
12 20 13 12 3 31
11 21 11 13 4 27
12 18 9 15 6 29
12 27 8 10 3 33
11 20 15 12 2 23
11 24 11 12 2 27
12 21 10 14 3 26
11 23 13 12 1 26
11 24 13 10 2 24
11 20 15 11 3 25
12 22 10 12 4 27
12 25 9 11 3 29
11 23 10 12 4 23
12 24 10 14 26
12 25 9 9 5 29
12 23 10 11 4 28
12 24 9 11 4 26
11 23 9 13 4 23
11 24 15 8 2 23
11 20 15 12 2 22
11 28 9 7 5 23
12 23 12 10 3 27
12 24 8 13 3 23
11 21 11 12 5 23
12 20 10 14 4 29
11 23 14 7 5 27
11 22 10 14 3 26
12 25 10 10 3 26
12 22 13 9 4 27
11 26 9 11 3 26
12 22 14 12 30
12 23 10 12 3 27
11 25 12 11 1 22
12 20 10 15 3 30
12 20 13 14 1 25


Interesting that sometimes there are no Upgrades. Although there might be too few ag points, the deck wouldn't be illegal, you just couldn't play with all 60 cards

In any event, head here: http://www.runners-net.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=37

5th post down gives some info. It appears that no one knows how WoTC broke up the starters, and this software doesn't care about type it would appear.
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Marcin S
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OK, so here's my distribution:

11 Agendas (26 AgPoints) - that's 18.33 %
24 ICE - that's 40%
11 Operations - 18.33%
9 Nodes 15%
5 Upgrades - 8.33%

Quite close to the average I s'pose. Just a node or two less.
 
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Simon Johnston
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Oldstench wrote:
Thanks for that link. Using it as a guide, I wrote a program to do analysis of 5 randomly generated Corp decks made with Netseal.

Here are the results:



---------Node-------- ----------------------Agenda-----------------------
#Cards Rez$ $/Card #Cards Advance $/Card Points Pts./Card $/Point
9 7 .78 11 53 4.82 26 2.36 2.04
10 16 1.6 11 50 4.55 25 2.27 2
8 12 1.5 11 49 4.45 21 1.91 2.33
12 9 .75 11 48 4.36 23 2.09 2.09
13 20 1.54 11 49 4.45 22 2 2.23

A couple of things stand out to me:

d10-1 3/5 decks are illegal. They don't have the proper amount of agenda points.


In the orginal set there were 22 Vital Agendas (each Agenda was either vital or rare).

1 point Agendas : 4
2 point Agendas : 7
3 point Agendas : 10
4 point Agendas : 1

This gives an average point per agenda ratio of 2.36. The ratios above look much lower, so I think the problem is mostly in the mix of agendas, not the number of agendas.

From the six starters analysed I would guess each starter contained 11 Vital agenda (any other agendas being rare).

11 x 2.36 = 26. So on average each starter should contain 26 points. I would expect that the Vital cards were arranged in print runs so that each would be around that average.
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Frizzler
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Hi,

every real Corp-starter contains exactly 11 Vitals.
All Corp-Vitals are Agendas, so every real Corp-Starter contains at least 11 Agendas (unless there was an error in the packaging process).

If Netseal got you a starter with only 8 agendas, that is a bug in NetSeal (you can report it to Malhavoc, who programmed that)

I have lists of nine real runner starters, written down at Karlsruhe City Grid tournaments.
You find them here:
http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~ffko/Netrunner/RealStartersAnalys...

I analyzed them concerning the distribution of Runner-Vitals.
See here:
http://www.runners-net.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=269&highlig...

SeeYa, Fabian

P.S.: Next tournament on Runner's Net starting on February 4th
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