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Fire & Axe: A Viking Saga» Forums » Rules

Subject: Navigation Incident Table rss

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Greg White
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the navigation incident table lists casualties as follows:
1 or 2 days: 1
3 or 4 days: 2
5 days: 3

we have always played that if a player exceeds the clear sailing days by 1 or 2 days they lose 1 viking or good in total - not 1 viking or good for both day 1 and day 2.

watching lawrence spodes video explanation of the game on bookshelfgames.com however he drew a different conclusion. he explained that if a ship exceeded the clear sailing days by 2 days, there would be a total of 2 casualties (1 for day 1 another for day 2).

i'm a bit confused, we came to our understanding of the rules because a longboat can, at most, have 7 spaces for vikings/goods and that is only in the 3rd saga. so in order to travel 5 days in difficult sailing the longboat would lose all but 1 crewman.

simply put, if lawrence's interpretation is correct then a ship could never travel a 5th day beyond the clear sailing.

however, (and this is where my confusion arises) the rules state something like: losses are taken 1 day at a time. which leans toward the interpretation that lawrence has.

i'd like to play this game as the designers intended so any clarification would be appreciated.



 
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I find the clear sailing and penalties a little tricky as well.

One example from the rules states:

Quote:
"Ragnar sails in the far North for seven days. He has exceeded the clear sailing days limit by four days, and so must take two losses."


In our group, we sail then impose the clear sailing penalty.

If you resolved each day at a time(like the video you describe), according to the Navigation Incident Table, the example above would result in more than 2 losses for the extra for days of sailing. Bare with me, this will get wordy!

1 loss for the 1st day + 1 loss for the second day= 2 losses and...
2 losses for the 3rd day + 2 losses for the 4th day= 4 losses

For a total of 6 losses. The rules example stated 2 losses for exceeding the clear sailing limit by 4 days. Those could not have been resolved each day at a time.

However, the rules do state:

Quote:
"When moving between sea zones resolve the turn one sailing day at a time. Losses suffered in the first sea zone are always applied before moving to the second zone"


So I think (and we play) that the only time you resolve the sailing days immediately (between days) is when crossing a sea zone like West to North. There is an example of this in the rules as well.

If sailing in the same zone, we do not account for losses until the player has fininshed sailing but before they execute an action such as settling (they must pay the loss before the action because the loss will effect their action).

I hope this helps. It is difficult and I am not 100% sure I am right, but it is how we play.
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Daniel Corban
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NZRPGR wrote:
the navigation incident table lists casualties as follows:
1 or 2 days: 1
3 or 4 days: 2
5 days: 3

we have always played that if a player exceeds the clear sailing days by 1 or 2 days they lose 1 viking or good in total - not 1 viking or good for both day 1 and day 2.


Your initial interpretation is spot on. If you sail 2 days over the limit, you only lose 1 viking, not 2.
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Greg White
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thanks to you both, i'll keep playing the game the way i have been then.
 
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Lawrence Spode
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NZRPGR wrote:

however, (and this is where my confusion arises) the rules state something like: losses are taken 1 day at a time. which leans toward the interpretation that lawrence has.



I actually played the way Greg seems to discribe it where you find how many days over you sail then remove that many goods or crewmen. The trouble was that when consulting the rules while making the video it seemed pretty clear that they wanted the penalty inflicted with each movement.

So my fault. Not the first or the last time Ill get a rule wrong. I will post the correction when I get home.

Thanks
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Jon Ben
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The whole idea of inflicting the penalty immediately is pretty simple. After every move you check if you are in excess of the clear sailing days, if you are you consult the table for the corresponding penalty. This is minimum number of penalties you should be at this turn, if you have not taken this number of penalties yet you must take penalties until you've reached this number. If you have taken at least this many penalties then you don't need to take any more.

The reason they state the rules this way is to ensure that clear sailing penalties are inflicted before actions are taken at ports, if one waited for the end of their turn to take the penalties then they wouldn't really be a penalized :) I'm sure that those above have not done this, likely they have inflicted penalties when a boat reaches a port but before actions are taken. Since this is the intent of the rules as written, but is a lot easier to understand, it would probably have made sense for them to word it this way instead.
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Michael Vinarcik
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Can you move to a port and stay there to avoid the penalties?

And you can end your move at sea, correct?
 
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Ted Groth
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mvinarcik wrote:
Can you move to a port and stay there to avoid the penalties?

And you can end your move at sea, correct?

You can always take fewer than 7 days on your turn if you wish, and you may stop either in port or at sea.
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Ted Groth
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JonBen wrote:
The whole idea of inflicting the penalty immediately is pretty simple. After every move you check if you are in excess of the clear sailing days, if you are you consult the table for the corresponding penalty. This is minimum number of penalties you should be at this turn, if you have not taken this number of penalties yet you must take penalties until you've reached this number. If you have taken at least this many penalties then you don't need to take any more.

This is the simplest and most accurate way to explain it.

Quote:
The reason they state the rules this way is to ensure that clear sailing penalties are inflicted before actions are taken at ports, if one waited for the end of their turn to take the penalties then they wouldn't really be a penalized I'm sure that those above have not done this, likely they have inflicted penalties when a boat reaches a port but before actions are taken. Since this is the intent of the rules as written, but is a lot easier to understand, it would probably have made sense for them to word it this way instead.

Actually your first explanation was better. If North is a treacherous region, and you sail from the West into the North and back out to the West again before reaching port, then you will probably need to take a penalty during your move in the North that wouldn't show up if you only assessed the penalties just before reaching the port in the West.
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