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Subject: Moving fox on Gloria Picktoria rss

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Joe Yamasaki
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I am reading the rule of Gloria Picktoria, a remake of Get the Goods and found uncertain rule which newly added on GP edition.

http://www.zoch-verlag.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Spielregeln...

In GP, there is a fox-shaped wooden token. You can move this token as one of action on your turn. That counts as one or two actions. But you also can move the fox after your turn without using any action. If so, there is no make sense for me to move the token as action(s) because you can move after your turn. Could anyone have any idea about these rules? Here is the moving rule.

---
D. Move the fox
If the fox is sitting on one of your collections, you may put him on any other of your own collections or on
any collection of your left neighbor.
You have the following possibilities:
1. Use one of the three actions of your turn to remove the fox from one of your own collections and place
it on any one of your other collections.
2. Use two of your three actions to place the fox on any collection of your left neighbor. Consequently,
you may do only one more action in this turn.

During the same turn, you may move the fox only once.
You may as well pass the fox to your left neighbor after your turn without using any action points.
Execute your three actions first without passing the fox. After that, you (additionally) place the fox on any
collection of your left neighbor. You may perform this action even if you have previously moved the fox
from one of your own collections to another.
 
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Steve Oliver
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The fox sounds like quite a change from Reibach / Get the Goods! Seems different enough that this should be listed as a separate game from Get the Goods, but I digress...

To answer your question, I wonder if it is because of the scoring cards. If you think a scoring is about to happen (and you plan on drawing cards this turn), you might want to move the fox so that you don't get stuck with it. So that makes sense. But is seems like everyone would pass the fox after their turn, wouldn't they? Why would you take the chance of getting stuck with it? So that fox is going to move around a lot, and then you have to decide if it's worth it to you to pay action points to move it before drawing cards.

I'm a big fan of Reibach as it is. This new additional idea of the fox and how it impacts the scoring seems like a distraction.
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Gary
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Joe - Thank you for asking the question. I've just got Gloria Picktoria and the same thing occured to me.

Using action points to move the fox seems wasteful when you are allowed to move it to the left for free at the end of the turn. A variant might be that if you use action points to move the fox then you can put it anyone's pile of goods, not just the player on the left; Whereas if you use no action points then it can only go to the player on the left.

That still leaves the question of why the passing on of the fox for free is optional. I can't think why a player would choose to keep it to themselves (Unless it's intended as something to let adults balance the game up when playing with young children?)

Gary

 
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Joe Yamasaki
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Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for the answer. Now it make sense for me. I also feel like distraction but might work as another tension. Once I received a GP(it is on the way from German), I will play with this fox rule. And if it didn't work, I can remove the rule anytime and is still great game as Reibach.
 
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Joe Yamasaki
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Hi Gary, it is nice to know I am not the only one! Your variant is interesting but the left neighbor might be the best choice because he/she is the furthest away. Once I received a GP, I will play with the fox rule. If it didn't work, maybe time to ask Zoch / Alan Moon about this rule.

Joe
 
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Joe Yamasaki
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Finally I got a Gloria Picktoria and played with the fox rules. The additional rule is excellent. When scoring cards is about to appear, the fox generate another (and strategic) tension. You can avoid the risk of fox to spend two action points or play cards on your hand but it tends to get less points. If you are brave enough, you draw new cards which tend to get more points. In strategic point of view, you will have benefit to make similar collections with left neighbor because you can disable the neighbor's collection with fox and make your collection better. The new rule makes GP looks like new game. I highly recommend to try this fox rule with 'Get the Goods' or 'Reibach & Co'. All you have to have is a token(or a nickel or a dime). I tip my hat to Alan Moon and Mick Ado.
Joe
 
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Betty Dingus
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So, you can always move the fox to a collection of your left neighbor for free at the end of your turn. The only time you would want to use action points to move it is if you think the scoring card is going to come up if you draw any cards?

You can use one action point to move it to a worse pile of your own, and still have two actions, such as draw and place. You would only do this, I should think, if you really needed that extra action for something, because the fox will still hurt you. Even if you put it on a lost-cause row, it would do more harm on a big high-scoring row of your neighbor.

But if you use two actions to move the fox to your opponent, you are left with just one action, to either pick up from the table or play a card that was in your hand. You would be trying not to have cards in your hand if the scoring is the final one? You would be trying to use up action points when you're actually all done with what you need to do? I'm still confused by the logic. Plus, the Gloria Picktoria rules don't stress that you must do all three of your actions, they just say "On a players turn, he chooses three actions and executes them in any order. The earlier rulesets stated: Each player has 3 Action points (APs) available each turn. They must use all three points even when, especially towards the end of the game, it is to their own disadvantage.

Official rules for the fox:

Place fox next to the draw pile, as he awaits his entrance. [Fox being the enemy of the chickens and Rooster Booster.]

The last player to add his first card to a treasure chest immediately places the fox on this "collection" (row of cards). As long as there is a fox on a collection, the collection has no value! However, it may still be extended. [The treasure chest is the face-down card that you need to start a row. I think by "last," they must mean "latest" or "most recent."] From the example, "Since Lea is the last player to place a card face up (create a collection), she places the fox on this row of cards."[/b]

D. Move the fox
If the fox is sitting on one of your collections, you may put him to any other of your own collections or to any collection of your left neighbor.
You have the following possibilities:
1. Use one of the three actions of your turn to remove the fox from one of your own collections and place
it on any one of your other collections.
2. Use two of your three actions to place the fox on any collection of your left neighbor. Consequently,
you may do only one other action in this turn.

During the same turn, you may move the fox only once.

However, after your turn, you may pass the fox to your left neighbor. In this case, you execute your three actions, completing your turn. After that, you place the fox on any collection of your left neighbor. You may perform this action even if you have previously moved the fox from one of your own collections to another during the actions of your turn.


Then later in the scoring section, it says:

-ATTENTION: The collection that has a fox on it is worthless. The collection is treated as if it did not exist at all. Therefore, it may occur that the value of collections of other players increase.

So, there's what may occur with that fox meeple in play. What do you think?


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Nate Downs
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I know this is an old thread, but thanks for the summary here. I just read over some of the fox stuff and it didn't make any sense to me, with this last post, it is all clear and made the game quite a bit of fun!

Thanks!
 
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Deb Wentworth
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I don't think it's officially part of the game, but I like to play that you also can't add a card to the stack the fox is sitting on.
 
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Power Wong
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jellynut wrote:
Joe - Thank you for asking the question. I've just got Gloria Picktoria and the same thing occured to me.

Using action points to move the fox seems wasteful when you are allowed to move it to the left for free at the end of the turn. A variant might be that if you use action points to move the fox then you can put it anyone's pile of goods, not just the player on the left; Whereas if you use no action points then it can only go to the player on the left.

That still leaves the question of why the passing on of the fox for free is optional. I can't think why a player would choose to keep it to themselves (Unless it's intended as something to let adults balance the game up when playing with young children?)

Gary



I found I have one reason to keep the fox under my collection row. That is when I have the longest or unique row of collection, I don't want to let other players to put the fox on it so I would like to keep the fox on my minor row so that no body can use it, haha.
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Heather Schwartz
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Okay so at the end of the round then you CAN move the fox for free, but you don't have to? I could totally see people holding on to the fox (on a single card treasure chest) for the whole game if they could.
 
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