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Here I Stand» Forums » Rules

Subject: LOC questions rss

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Denis Cobrousev
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1. All spaces LOC passes through must be free of enemy units. Who are enemies in this case – my enemies or space owner’s ones?

2. Can LOC be traced from or through space under siege? It seems logical to say no, but I can’t find it in the rules.

3. No requirement of absence of enemy units in sea zones LOC passes through?
 
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Ed Beach
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1. Your enemies.

2. Question #1 applies here. If you have a space under siege, then your enemies are present here. Therefore you can't trace LOC through it.

3. You can not occupy a sea zone at the same time as an enemy navy. The naval rules prevent that. So no extra requirement was needed in the rules.
 
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Denis Cobrousev
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2. But it may be my ally's space besieged by his enemies who are not my enemies.

3. Same objections. It may be my ally's and my enemy's (who are not enemies each to other) navy.
 
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Ed Beach
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2. Then technically the LOC is not blocked. All the conditions for a LOC are met.

3. Ah, I see what the confusion is. The rules for this do read:

"One or more adjacent sea zones may be part of the LOC if they each contain a friendly naval unit."

"Friendly" here implies that a naval unit from an allied MAJOR power could count for this.

However this is inconsistent with the rules for naval blockades to assault a port (where the naval unit must be from YOUR power; allied major power fleets don't count). So the wording here should be updated to:

"...each contain one of your power's naval units."

Once it is reworded like this you'll see that an enemy fleet couldn't be present there. As soon as you both occupied the same sea zone, a battle would have occurred.
 
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Denis Cobrousev
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Ed Beach wrote:
3. Ah, I see what the confusion is. The rules for this do read:

"One or more adjacent sea zones may be part of the LOC if they each contain a friendly naval unit."

"Friendly" here implies that a naval unit from an allied MAJOR power could count for this.

However this is inconsistent with the rules for naval blockades to assault a port (where the naval unit must be from YOUR power; allied major power fleets don't count). So the wording here should be updated to:

"...each contain one of your power's naval units."

Once it is reworded like this you'll see that an enemy fleet couldn't be present there. As soon as you both occupied the same sea zone, a battle would have occurred.

Well, you assumed two things that are not obligatory take place:
a) The sea zone is adjacent to the space I try to assault. It may be not, it may be not last step of the path.
b) The space owner and the navy owner is the same power. They may be two different enemies.
 
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Ed Beach
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Denis Cobrousev wrote:

Well, you assumed two things that are not obligatory take place:
a) The sea zone is adjacent to the space I try to assault. It may be not, it may be not last step of the path.
b) The space owner and the navy owner is the same power. They may be two different enemies.


I'm not sure I understand this fully Denis. "Space owner" of which space?

So I don't see the issue you are trying to point out. To have LOC over water for a siege, you have to have one of YOUR naval units in each zone. The naval combat rules prohibit you from ever being in a sea zone with an enemy naval unit after a naval move action is complete. So how can there be an issue?
 
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Denis Cobrousev
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I. e. I can't trace LOC through sea zone occupied by ally's but my naval units in any case, regardless of presence or absence enemy ones or something else?
 
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Ed Beach
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Denis: Really appreciate you going through the rules in this much detail, especially since they are in a foreign language. I know some Russian but certainly couldn't pull this off.

Let me take a stab at rephrasing your last statement a bit to make sure we're in agreement here:

"i. e. I can't trace LOC through a sea zone occupied by a MAJOR POWER ally's naval units. It has to be through sea zones occupied by my naval units. Presence or absence of enemy naval units is not mentioned in the rules since they can't be present with my own naval units."

If that is what you meant it is 100% correct.
 
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Denis Cobrousev
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Yes, you're right, I meant exactly that.

So we can see difference between land and sea here: I can use my major ally's territory for LOC on land and can't at sea.
 
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