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Subject: Papacy Strategy Tips rss

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Pepper Page
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Hi All
I am currently playing a games as the Papacy. This is only my second game. I am not doing well against the protestants. We are on Turn 3 and they control most of GErmany and part of France.they control 28 spaces. They have rolled well and played well. The league has not occured yet. Any suggestions on how I can stop them and win the game?
 
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Spencer Beni
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I haven't played the Papacy yet (though I want to) and I don't know what you've tried and what you haven't, but here are some thoughts.

I'm assuming Paul III is not Pope yet (he can't appear until turn 3, so it is possible). If he is not Pope, I'd be concentrating on debates rather than book burnings. Both of your home cards should be used for debates. I've seen the Papal Bull card used effectively in the early game to excommunicate a reformer (like Calvin) and then call a debate in France since Calvin is unavailable (works on Cranmer too when he gets put on the board). My experience has been debates are somewhat risky for both sides, despite the fact that the odds are usually in the Catholics favor, but it is still generally your best bet. Once Paul III becomes Pope you should increase your book burnings (though I would always, if possible, use the Leipzig Debate to call a debate).

This may involve curbing any military plans you have (hopefully you've managed to take over Florenze at least).

Always be on the look-out for a "debate opportunity." If the Protestant commits a lvl 1 debater and has not commited anyone else in that language zone, use the Leipzig card, choose Eck, and call the debate against the committed debater. In the last game I played, the Papacy player generally held on to the Leipzig card until the end, waiting for just such an opportunity. Because of that the Protestant player (me) sometimes missed out on using the special abilities of my debaters, because I was afraid to commit the low levels until a high level debater had been comitted.

Do what you can to keep the electorates out of Protestant hands. When the Schmalkadic League forms, they will get 12 VPs if they own all six. That will put the Protestants at 20 VP minimum (if they already have 28 spaces converted), not to mention any VPs they may have from Bible translations. When you convert cities as a result of a victorious debate, try to recapture the electorates or the cities adjacent to them (assuming the debate occurred in Germany, of course).

If possible, convince France and the Hapsburgs to position their Catholic troops in key areas to increase your reformation/counter-reformation rolls. If you are allied with France and/or the Hapsburgs, you may be able to position your own troops in key areas (although it would probably be better for you to save your CPs on book burnings and debates, rather than moving troops around).

You may need to do some diplomacy as well. Assuming that the Protestants do have all 6 electorates, be sure to point out to the other players just how many VPs he will have once the League forms (new players may not fully appreciate the jump in VPs that the Protestants get when the League forms). Remind them that until the League forms, you are the only power on the map that can curb the spread of the Protestant faith (which translates into VPs). This may help convince the other countries that they need to help you. If the Ottomans and/or English are at war with the French/Hapsburgs (a likely scenario), you may need to convince them to lay off for awhile so the French and Hapsburgs can spare their Catholic troops for more important duties.

Convince other countries to play cards in your favor. Be on the look out for Anabaptists and Indulgence Vendor, and make sure the other countries know that if they get these cards they should play them as an event, not for CP. Again, this is assuming that the others can be convinced that the Protestants will be so close to winning when the League is formed that everyone must act to prevent this (I don't know what the current VP situation is, so this may or may not be possible).

If the situation is really looking bleak for all involved, then you may even try to convince some of the "richer" countries to give you cards to increase your ability to call debates or burn books.

Lastly, from what I've seen and read, remember that the Protestants generally do well for the first 4 turns of the game. The Papacy gets some nice cards put in the deck on turn 5, and you get some nice debaters as well. Your goal in the early game is to slow the spread of Protestantism as best you can.

Hope that helps. Good luck in the game.
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Jason Johns
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Great advice, Binzer. I'm the Haps in this game. I am working on the Ottomans right now, but have an eye to the Prots. Actually, France is in the lead with 21 VPs!!! I am second with 16.

I have worked to keep France off of the back of the Papacy, but have not given him any cards.

As a side note, the Proestant is a pot-stirrer... We'll see when the Schmalkendic League comes in.

Jason
 
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RJ
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...and I would be the pot-stirring Protestant.

It is all very good advice, and I'm definitely going to try and avoid it if I can. Of course I am concerned about the Turn 5 papacy cards coming up, and the Hapsburgs are really steamrolling the Turks, and France has gone unchallenged thus far. So even though the Papacy hasn't gotten lucky, his natural allies against the Prots are very healthy.

England seems gearing up for an attack, but whether it's on the Haps or the French remains to be seen.
 
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Andy Foulke
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...and I would be the gearing English!

I'm not going to make any attack announcements here. I just wanted to watch the pot stir some more.
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Mark Ballinger
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Stir-stir-stir
 
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Jason Johns
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thniff wrote:
Stir-stir-stir


Mark's the Ottoman who just got the Prots (played Schmalkendic League) and English at war with the Haps...me...sniffle. I have some plans for them all. MUUUUHHHHHUUUUUUUHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH.

Maybe we'll have to up a game report after this one.

Jason
 
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Greg Forster
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Pleasant Prairie
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"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning" - Dr. Reiner Knizia
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Binzer wrote:
If you are allied with France and/or the Hapsburgs, you may be able to position your own troops in key areas (although it would probably be better for you to save your CPs on book burnings and debates, rather than moving troops around).


It costs you nothing to Spring Deploy into Hapsburg territory and then move back in winter. And this is an extremely powerful strategy before SL is played, when the Protestant can't attack your troops. Hang out in Nuremburg and enjoy the beer! Just make sure you don't leave yourself defenseless if somebody gets the idea of invading Italy.
 
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Andy Barrington
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>It costs you nothing to Spring Deploy into Hapsburg territory and then move back in winter. And this is an extremely powerful strategy before SL is played, when the Protestant can't attack your troops. Hang out in Nuremburg and enjoy the beer! Just make sure you don't leave yourself defenseless if somebody gets the idea of invading Italy.

It does require you ally with the Hapsburg player. Once you own Florence not normally a major issue but prior to that allowing a drive from Naples a free path to Florence can be a heavy price. In addition to you the three Southern electorates are worth 1 VP on the religious track, to the Hapsburg they are worth 3 VP. Oftentimes you must ask yourself whether the Protestants having the electorates or the Hapsburg is more frightening to your winning chances.
 
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Jason Johns
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polarbear1953 wrote:
>It costs you nothing to Spring Deploy into Hapsburg territory and then move back in winter. And this is an extremely powerful strategy before SL is played, when the Protestant can't attack your troops. Hang out in Nuremburg and enjoy the beer! Just make sure you don't leave yourself defenseless if somebody gets the idea of invading Italy.

It does require you ally with the Hapsburg player. Once you own Florence not normally a major issue but prior to that allowing a drive from Naples a free path to Florence can be a heavy price. In addition to you the three Southern electorates are worth 1 VP on the religious track, to the Hapsburg they are worth 3 VP. Oftentimes you must ask yourself whether the Protestants having the electorates or the Hapsburg is more frightening to your winning chances.


Well, I've never seen the Haps win or really even come close, so...I'd rather see the Hapsburgs have 2 or three of the electorates (at +2 or 3 VPs) and the Prot down -4 or -6 VPs.

This of course, is said unless I am the Prot!
Jason
 
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Alban Ullrich
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Greg Forster wrote:
Binzer wrote:
If you are allied with France and/or the Hapsburgs, you may be able to position your own troops in key areas (although it would probably be better for you to save your CPs on book burnings and debates, rather than moving troops around).


It costs you nothing to Spring Deploy into Hapsburg territory and then move back in winter. And this is an extremely powerful strategy before SL is played, when the Protestant can't attack your troops. Hang out in Nuremburg and enjoy the beer! Just make sure you don't leave yourself defenseless if somebody gets the idea of invading Italy.


I want to point out that it is not allowed to spring deploy across passes, so you will need to control Venice and be allied with habsburg to spring deploy to Nuremberg.
 
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Ed Beach
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However if there is no Ottoman fleet in the Adriatic, you can bypass Venice by deploying across that sea zone (Ravenna to Trieste). So often just an alliance with the Hapsburgs is enough.
 
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