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Subject: River Crossings: Subtle Difference ? rss

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Tony M
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I have a minor question. Almost so irrelevant, its not worth asking, but I'm curious.

Two Scenarios:
A) A donkey & 2 boards are on one side of a river. The river is spanned by a bridge.

B) A donkey & 2 boards are on one side of a river. The river is spanned by a raft.


In A, obviously at the beginning of the donkeys move, it can just cross the river.

Is it the same with B ? Or would the donkey have been loaded onto the raft at the end of its LAST movement (and thus leaving the 2 boards unguarded until it departs).

IE:
Turn N: Donkey drops the boards & Boards the Raft (which must also be empty)
Turn N+1: Donkey debarks on the other side. Raft then ferries the boards, which donkey picks up and carries off.

Is this correct ?

-T
 
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brian
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I am no authority as I am just getting into the game myself. But the way I understand it to be the way you have outlined in your example. The Raft is not a bridge and so the Donkey cannot simply cross it with his goods as if it were a bridge. When one transporter is transporting another, neither may carry any goods so they stay behind.

The only thing I am not sure about is if the Donkey can carry the goods immediately after the Raft ferries them across. I am not sure if it is considered "no movement" since it is all within the same tile or if it is considered "extending the move" since it has passed between two transporters of the same player. I think they way I would play it is build a bridge.
 
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Marco
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Brian is right: the donkey can't carry off with the boards, when those have been ferried by the raft in that same turn. A working solution is:

Turn N: The raft ferries the boards and then the donkey is boarding.
Turn N+1: The donkey debarks, picks up the goods and carries off.

Marco
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Bas de Bakker
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Your questions are answered on the Splotter website. For the original question, read this:

http://www.splotter.nl/english/r&b/differences.html#ferrying...

For Brian's additional question, read this:

http://www.splotter.nl/english/r&b/faq.html#bewegungaustausc...

(The answer is: Yes, they can. Ferrying is not considered movement.)
 
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Bas de Bakker
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MarcoGreen wrote:
Brian is right: the donkey can't carry off with the boards, when those have been ferried by the raft in that same turn. A working solution is:

Turn N: The raft ferries the boards and then the donkey is boarding.
Turn N+1: The donkey debarks, picks up the goods and carries off.

While this is a working solution, the donkey can also move the boards after they have been ferried in the same movement phase. See the reference I quoted above.

Also, the donkey can wait dropping the boards and being picked up by the raft until the end of the turn N+1 production phase.
 
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Tony M
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Thanks for the link....I missed that on the Spotter website !
 
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Ian Wakeham
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So as a general rule, I take it that any reference to movement in the rules means a movement of goods and transporters from one hex to another. Any "movement" within a hex, for example, across a bridge or across a river is really just the preparation prior to the movement.

As in the original example, I need to move from tile A to tile B but before I do that I just need to get my donkey and boards over the river. If this can physically be done, because there's a raft there, then I can then move to tile B. If there's no raft there then I'm stuck - or have to take the long way round.

However, I also assume that if there is no raft there then I can:
1. Move a raft into hex A
2. Transport the donkey and boards across the river (separately in theory, but in one movement in practice)
3. Move the donkey with the boards to hex B
4. Continue the movement of the raft to another hex if required
 
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Ian Wakeham
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I’ve just read and re-read the Splotter FAQs and I think I understand now. As far as I see it the relevant steps in each phase are as follows:

Production Phase
1. Exchange goods, load goods, unload goods (including load transporters onto other transporters)

Movement Phase
2. Unload transporters from other transporters
3. Exchange goods, load goods, unload goods (including load transporters onto other transporters)
4. Transporters move
5. Exchange goods, load goods, unload goods (including load transporters onto other transporters)

Building Phase
6. Exchange goods, load goods, unload goods (including load transporters onto other transporters)

Wonder Phase
7. Exchange goods, load goods, unload goods (including load transporters onto other transporters)

This means that the boards can be unloaded from the donkey on step 1 (or a previous step 3, 5, 6 or 7)
The donkey is picked up by the raft on step 1 (or a previous step 3, 5 or 6 or 7)
The donkey is unloaded on the other side of the river in step 2 (not possible at any other time)
The raft picks up the boards, takes them across the river and passes them to the donkey in step 3 (if left to steps 5, 6 or 7 then the donkey will be unable to transport the boards until the next movement phase).
The donkey moves with the boards (and the raft may move) in step 4.
Therefore my second example of the raft moving into the hex will not work because this movement happens in step 4, so although it can pick up the donkey in step 5 it will be unable to unload the donkey at the other side of the river until the next step 2.
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