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Subject: Axis minor powers political rules relaxed in dire need? rss

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Patrick B
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Well, after checking the rules for 5 minutes, I agreed: my opponent could march the Russian cavalry right through the Priapet Marshes, with no breakthrough movement problems.

Which he did, and promptly took Romania out of the game when his cavalry hit the capital. I then put his cavalry OOS, but not before my opponent demonstrates my need for more sleep during the week: he walks into Polesti, and controls it before dying of OOS. Next turn: mud.

And so, I realize that I've got no Germans anywhere near Polesti. The nearest one is 2 spaces away, and it's mud, so they can only move 1 space. And no breakthrough movement.

Now, I've got the Hungarians RIGHT there, next to Polesti, right next to the corpse of Romania (full of Romanians who no longer want to fight for the Axis). But my opponent argues, or rather I check the rules and get very puzzled and then tell him and then he agrees with the rules, that Hungarian and even Bulgarian forces can't enter Romania. It's not listed in their places of 'where they can go'.

My argument is that Romania as we know it is gone, and given that I'm frustrate by complete lack of foresight, I desperately need Hungary to walk one step and reclaim Polesti NOW. Thoughts? (We ended up agreeing, and then calling the game a few minutes later to do the lateness of the hour)
 
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Ben Smith
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I'm no historian but I can tell you the hatred between Hungarians and Romanians was notorious. My understanding is they actually fought each other on many occasions, it'll be interesting to hear some opinions from others on the subject. Marching Hungarians into Romania probably has political ramifications outside the scope of the game.. Like all-out war between both countries
 
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Seth Owen
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I think the movement restrictions are based on historical animosities between the Axis minior powers. Hungary and Rumania, in particular, had serious "issues" with each other.
Bottom line, as much as it might be helpful for the Axis war effort, I think it's entirely reasonable that the Hungarians would let the Rumanians stew in their own pot rather than help out.
The Germans were pretty careful to stiffen their "allies" with German troops. The lesson here is that EE players would be advised to do the same.
 
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Enrico Russo
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A house rule we're using since the first game is the following:
Axis minors can go into EX-Axis minor territories.

So, if Rumania is put out of game, Bulgaria and Hungary units can get there.

Feel free to use it.
:-)
 
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Enrico Russo
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P.S.
According to 5.15, how your friend marched through Pripet marshes ??
 
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Pierre Pinguet
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I'd say the restrictions still apply, due to the political aspects cited.

If you allow the Hungarians to enter, you'd then need some additional "Romanian partisans" rule. Maybe as an optional...

Regarding Enrico comment on 5.15, I assume it was a winter turn.
Swamp treated as rough terrain with no armor allowed: so cavalry can dash trough.

I just love cavalry units for this ability: they are cheap and can do hit and run. A Cosack suicide attack on Rumania can create tons of problem...

PS: To the OP, the russian cavalry didn't even need to move to Ploesti after removing the Rumanian from the war, if it was not axis garnisonned (9.15).
 
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Patrick B
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enrico_russo wrote:
P.S.
According to 5.15, how your friend marched through Pripet marshes ??

It was winter, so marshes are treated as rough terrain (except tanks still can't enter them).

My own terrain/weather guide said they were treated as rough in winter; for some reason, recently, I thought that was combat only. Re-reading the rules pointed to something different, to my chagrin.
 
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Patrick B
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Pippin123 wrote:

PS: To the OP, the russian cavalry didn't even need to move to Ploesti after removing the Rumanian from the war, if it was not axis garnisonned (9.15).

Ah, but that's only providing WERPs.

9.19 says that the Axis must CONTROL and trace supply to Polesti in order to not suffer the terrible effects in 9.19. It doesn't say anything about garrisoning.

When the Romanians were removed, Polesti still remained under Axis control. The dire effects in 9.19 don't occur, although the Axis can no longer receive WERPs from it (per 9.15). So, my opponent had to take one additional step into the area to control it, and then the effects of 9.19 began to take effect.
 
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Jon M
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enrico_russo wrote:
A house rule we're using since the first game is the following:
Axis minors can go into EX-Axis minor territories.

So, if Rumania is put out of game, Bulgaria and Hungary units can get there.

Feel free to use it.
:-)


The problem is that Rumania is not 'out of the game'. In the war it actually switched sides and fought with the Russians. If Hungarian troops attacked Rumania then Rumania would defend itself. You would then need rules for Rumanian units in this instance and have a whole extra level of complexity. In essence if that Hungarian unit entered Rumanian territory, the currently neutral/soviet controlled Rumanian army that is not represented on the board by a unit but still nether the less exists would rise to the defence of the area. It therefore couldn't be captured by a single Hungarian unit and you are back where you started.
 
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Sandy Petersen
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In the War, Rumania actually suffered the third most deaths of any Axis nation (more than Italy), and the fourth most of any Allied nation(!) (from Sept 44 on, when they were technically Allies). And during the time, the Rumanian army actually did enter Hungary and fight Hungarians.

I'm sure both Magyars and Bulgars would be happy to invade Rumania as a hostile nation. But then we would need rules for Rumanian soldiers fighting on the Russian side.

Actually Rumanians were more in control of their nation than most people realize. After Stalingrad they demanded (and got) their troops moved off the front line, and from then on they were used in garrison duty by the Germans (they still saw combat of course, when the Russians broke through the lines).

In September 1944, before the Russians had penetrated their country, the Rumanian government carefully and secretly organized their switcharoo, arresting and kicking out the surprised Germans and changing over to the Allied side. The Germans were so shocked that they took ruthless steps to ensure Hungary could not do the same, up to and including kidnapping the son of the Hungarian dictator and holding him as hostage.

Go go Rumania!
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