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Subject: Similar to RRT? rss

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Paul Holman
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The basic mechanics of the two games are the same - ie. raising cash by issuing shares, spending the cash on building track and upgrading trains, and delivering coloured cubes to similarly coloured cities.

AoS is harsher than RRT, in most peoples opinion. It's more of a hardcore gamers game, whereas RRT is lighter, and could be played with non-gamer family or friends.

I suggest you read reviews and as much as you can about both games and try to find somewhere you can play someone else's copies; then decide.
 
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I got RRT for Christmas. After one play, I can't imagine how much harder AoS could be. RRT is tough and if you don't think ahead, you'll never do well. Its a tough game.

I think you really have to play both of them. I'd really like to give AoS a spin now that I've played RRT.
 
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Christopher Dearlove
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Pum_ wrote:
The basic mechanics of the two games are the same


Except that the OP is talking about a third game, AoS 3rd edition, which won't be identical to AoS 1st/2nd edition.

There's some material that Martin Wallace has released. Above that those who know aren't teliing (for the usual obvious reasons). The basic mechanics will again be the same, but the details are to be seen.
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J C Lawrence
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Sonja wrote:
Are all the old AoS expansion maps easily imported into AoS 3e...


No, many will not even begin to work.

Quote:
...or RRT?


No. The tile sizes are wrong and the maps far too small to work with RRT's rules.
 
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Michael Webb
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Fundamentally, the Third Edition still plays more like AoS than RT, at least the version that I played does.

The primary softness of the new game comes from the share-issuing scheme (which was more like RT), the way the expenses are calculated, and the lack of an auction (which also takes it into RT territory).

To me, the fundamental things which delineate RT from AoS are the variable phase order (i.e.: you pick whether you want to ship, build track, &c.) and the cards; neither of which will appear in the Mayfair version of the game system barring a 180 degree turn from what they're doing currently.
 
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Jim Cote
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stormseeker75 wrote:
After one play, I can't imagine how much harder AoS could be.

AoS is much eaiser to teach than RRT. It doesn't have tycoon cards, operations cards, empty city markers, or a western link. AoS is just more difficult to play well.
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Richard Dewsbery
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Sonja wrote:

Are all the old AoS expansion maps easily imported into AoS 3e or RRT?


The plan for AoS3 is to have it be playable on the old Warfrog maps. Of course, some maps had a few changes from the base rules, and I don't know how Martin will handle this. As for third-party expansions, I have no idea how they will fit in.


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Sonja wrote:
What does "similar to RRT" mean? What percent of these two games will be the same or similar?

Well, there is a lot of conflicting information out there. For example, according Mayfair Games website, which is still using Age of Steam® Third Edition as the name, the release date is "toward the end of 2007":
http://www.mayfairgames.com/news/news-arc/news-ageofsteam.ht...

According to BGG game description (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/27833) which quotes Boardgame News (though I couldn't find it on BGN website):

Quote:
Certain actions, such as Urbanization and Improve Engine, have a cost, so you still pay for the good actions.
The Income/VP track is also based on the RRT one, so your income actually starts going down as your VPs increase.

This sure sounds a lot more like RRT than AoS to me!

Martin Wallace also gives some 'progress notes' on the Warfrog website:
http://www.warfroggames.com/Aosprogress.html

Quote:
I have designed the map so that old AoS maps can be fitted on top and the necessary game tracks can be seen around the edge.

Mind you, many fan-made expansions used maps with different dimensions than the official ones.

From everything I've read about AoS 3e, my guess is it's all still up in the air - the rules, the name, etc. So we won't really know how "similar to RRT" it will be until it is published.

Also, keep in mind that Winsome Games has claimed that they will publish AoS 2nd edition in 2008 as well.

 
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Alan Kaiser
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rockusultimus wrote:

Also, keep in mind that Winsome Games has claimed that they will publish AoS 2nd edition in 2008 as well.


Any news on whether RRT in some form will be reprinted? I hadn't been paying much attention up to this point but now that Martin Wallace has chimed in I getting more curious.
 
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Michael Webb
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alkaiser wrote:
rockusultimus wrote:

Also, keep in mind that Winsome Games has claimed that they will publish AoS 2nd edition in 2008 as well.


Any news on whether RRT in some form will be reprinted? I hadn't been paying much attention up to this point but now that Martin Wallace has chimed in I getting more curious.


RT is still "in print" as long as FunAgain has it in stock, as they are the owners of the game at this point in time. Whether it will ever be reprinted once the initial print run sells out, well, I imagine that will depend on the cost of doing a reprint, and of maintaining the rights to use the RT name. I imagine they aren't willing to pay that particular price again based on the new expansion, which is being released sans the trademarked name.
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Marcus Lau
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stormseeker75 wrote:
I got RRT for Christmas. After one play, I can't imagine how much harder AoS could be. RRT is tough and if you don't think ahead, you'll never do well. Its a tough game.

I think you really have to play both of them. I'd really like to give AoS a spin now that I've played RRT.


Well, put it this way. We had 2 newbies (whom had recently graduated from RRT) playing Age of Steam (4 players) with us last Saturday. On turn 3, one of the newbies (RRT veteran), Ian, went bust (bankrupt) and was eliminated from the game. The rest of us decided not to continue as we didn't want Ian to sit there and twiddle his thumb. The other noob, Blur would have gone bust 2 turns later as he had 5 shares and a level 2 locomotive ($7 expenses per turn) while his income level was only 3... Go figure. []
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J C Lawrence
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friedricetheman wrote:
stormseeker75 wrote:
I got RRT for Christmas. After one play, I can't imagine how much harder AoS could be. RRT is tough and if you don't think ahead, you'll never do well. Its a tough game.

I think you really have to play both of them. I'd really like to give AoS a spin now that I've played RRT.


Well, put it this way. We had 2 newbies (whom had recently graduated from RRT) playing Age of Steam (4 players) with us last Saturday. On turn 3, one of the newbies (RRT veteran), Ian, went bust (bankrupt) and was eliminated from the game. The rest of us decided not to continue as we didn't want Ian to sit there and twiddle his thumb. The other noob, Blur would have gone bust 2 turns later as he had 5 shares and a level 2 locomotive ($7 expenses per turn) while his income level was only 3... Go figure. []


That matches my experience with RRT players. While the gross design patterns are similar between the two games the play patterns and primary player concerns are NOT similar. RRT skills translate poorly to AoS and if players don't realise that they'll wipe out every time.
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Marcus Lau
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clearclaw wrote:
friedricetheman wrote:
stormseeker75 wrote:
I got RRT for Christmas. After one play, I can't imagine how much harder AoS could be. RRT is tough and if you don't think ahead, you'll never do well. Its a tough game.

I think you really have to play both of them. I'd really like to give AoS a spin now that I've played RRT.


Well, put it this way. We had 2 newbies (whom had recently graduated from RRT) playing Age of Steam (4 players) with us last Saturday. On turn 3, one of the newbies (RRT veteran), Ian, went bust (bankrupt) and was eliminated from the game. The rest of us decided not to continue as we didn't want Ian to sit there and twiddle his thumb. The other noob, Blur would have gone bust 2 turns later as he had 5 shares and a level 2 locomotive ($7 expenses per turn) while his income level was only 3... Go figure. []


That matches my experience with RRT players. While the gross design patterns are similar between the two games the play patterns and primary player concerns are NOT similar. RRT skills translate poorly to AoS and if players don't realise that they'll wipe out every time.


Yes. What you said is true. I'm a seasoned 18xx, AoS and RRT player. The thing that I found out is that transitions is never easy. RRT players graduating into AoS will find it hard to cope with the expenses and issuing shares. And AoS players going into the deep waters of 18xx will find difficulty in adjusting their game play to accomodate the volatile share market in 18xx.

RRT = take shares anytime, building tracks costs less, your first shipment will advance you +$3 and more leg room to wriggle your toes.

AoS = take shares at only the beginning of each turn, extra expenses (shares + locomotive requires upkeep), very costly track building and bidding system (first + second player pay full amounts, the last player pays nothing and the rest pay half round up) which is played on a very small and tight map.

18xx = Even smaller map, you actively manipulate the shares of your company and also of other players, give or withold dividends (give too much dividends away and your company gets nothing to operate with), trains going obsolete at the wrong time, other players buying up your company from you (share market takeover) etc.
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