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Subject: Tips and Strategy for the Long Game rss

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This thread essentially contains a collection of tips on "the long game" (and some hints on keeping the peace between players).
This just a summary of things to consider when playing Warhammer Quest longer term (playing multiple quests, level advancement, etc.)

FYI: I won't be extending comments to the expansion characters or adventures, only the basic game. Also, if you're looking for an introduction to playing Warhammer Quest or a break-down of the basic rules, there are several other good ones available, but it's not this one.

Below is a summary of what's covered in this post:
Tracking Treasure and Objective Room Treasure
Early Quests and early (read: low) player levels
The Monster Tables
Monster Tables and the Event deck
Luck will save your life
Starting/Ending Quests (or exiting and entering a dungeon)
The Lantern
Warp Jump
Transport of the Damned
Freeze!
Healing Hands
Pit of Despair
How far can Heroes and Monsters see in the Dungeon?
Solo Play



Tracking Treasure and Objective Room Treasure
If, like our group, you play a lot of games you'll also be drawing a lot of treasure for the same Heroes over time. If you're only going to play one or two adventures before retiring the Heroes, then don't worry about keeping track of Treasure. Our party has been playing for a while, and we also draw Objective Room Treasure when we complete an Objective room, with so many quests and so much treasure we absolutely MUST keep track of who has drawn cards. The reason being: each Hero/player draws a Treasure card in turn around the table when a group of Monsters is defeated, as per the rules. So first it's the Barbarian, then the Elf, Wizard and finally the Dwarf. After we play an adventure, everyone goes home, usually with everyone having drawn a Treasure card, but not quite. Since the Barbarian ALWAYS draws first, he's never missed from one game to the next, but usually the Wizard and Dwarf get shafted because we never draw exactly enough Treasure for everyone to get an equal number of cards. If the Barbarian and Elf were the last two to draw cards and we break for a week the next time we play, unless we kept track, drawing would start back at the Barbarian again and begin a new cycle. Over 10-20+ gaming sessions the poor guys down the line will notice that the Barbarian has a ridiculous pile of Treasure. This REALLY WILL HAPPEN if you don't keep track of who drew the last Treasure card. Just a sheet with "Barb Elf Wiz Dwa" and a tick mark below each is sufficient and this can keep everyone happy. There'll be some bad blood over long games if you don't.



Early Quests and early (read: low) player levels
Your most difficult time will often be your first and perhaps second and third quests. Many a party has met their demise during their first soiree into the dungeons beneath the Warhammer world.

Why is it so difficult? The Heroes and level 1 Monsters and Events (the ones in the Event deck for the main game system) are fairly evenly matched. As the basic adventures/quests of Warhammer Quest are randomly-generated there is enough variability for a quest to take anywhere from 30 minutes to upward of 3 hours! Sometimes this is because of backtracking through a dungeon, sometimes it's because a "1" is rolled on the Event/Power die which results in encounters, and sometimes it's a combination of the two. In very unlucky games the party may generate successive Events as they are mere moments away from finishing off the Monsters from a previous event. It's also possible, and not all that uncommon, to have an unexpected Event generate Monsters while the party is knee-deep in Monsters already occupying the difficult Objective room.

The party will find things get much easier once they level-up. But even before this the Heroes usually have a few pieces of Treasure, often magical weapons, armour or other trinkets that will give them an advantage and therefore making later game play more manageable. Something as simple as a Treasure that allows the Wizard to re-roll the Event die, and thus avoiding a "1", could save the party or one of its members.

One of our players made a very important comment which always holds true: The biggest advantage you can gain with your gold is to advance a level. You get a lot of bang for the buck and it can never be stolen or taken away from you.
This is very true. There are events that you can encounter on the way to a settlement which will force you to lose HALF of your gold... so there's no point hoarding it. Likewise, unless you're experienced and very confident in your character's abilities you're far better off spending your first 2000 gold to go to Level 2 instead of buying an Elf Bow for 2000 Gold, or 2000 Gold on a Musket, for example. There's a chance you can lose weapons or other pieces of equipment, particularly while you are traveling to settlements. You will NEVER be demoted a level or lose that investment in the character.

As far as we've encountered so far in our games, the only time anyone waited to advance a level was our very tough and very unstoppable Dwarf. He was essentially a tank at Level 6, with 14 Toughness and an insanely tricked-out axe from the Treasure deck which was maxed-out with some VERY good runes from the rune smith. The rest of the party was Level 2, Level 2 and Level 5 (we played a few adventures without the entire party) and we wanted him to wait before advancing so that the rest of the party didn't have a chance of facing Level 7 Monsters.


The Monster Tables
Once you begin to advance levels the Monsters in the Event deck will pose less of a threat and you'll want something more challenging. Similarly, if everyone is at Level 3 and you are still fighting the Monsters in the Event Deck (which are Level 1 Monsters), then it is going to take a very long time to get to successively higher levels. After you pass Level 1, you'll probably be looking to use the Monster Tables from the RPG book.
In theory there's a couple of ways you could use the tables, depending on the party's level, and the first is simple:
If all Heroes in the party are at Level 3: Always roll on the Level 3 table.
If the levels are mixed, for example two of the Heroes are at Level 3 and two of the Heroes are at Level 4:
A) roll a die to determine which table to use, it will be a 50% chance of being either the Level 3 or Level 4 table, or
B) Always roll on the Level 4 table. It's a little wimpy to just always roll on the Level 3 table, so do try to challenge your party. Technically you should be fighting monsters you own level, or
C) roll on the Level 3 table, divide the number of Monsters by 2, then roll on the Level 4 table and divide the number of Monsters by 2. I'd recommend against the Level 4 Heroes only getting attacked/targeted by the Level 4 Monsters, and only having the Level 3 Heroes fight the Level 3 Monsters, as the Level 4 Heroes are more than likely going to get more gold for their kills *on average* and will continue to advance a little more quickly than the lower-level Heroes. Of course during battles the Heroes and Monsters may mix it up a little, but more often than not you'll find the Level 4 Heroes will kill their Monsters and the Level 3 Heroes will kill theirs (and sometimes the higher-level Heroes will kill BOTH sets of Monster on their turn, continuing to secure their higher level). Lastly, and the one we use
D) Alternate the Monster table Levels. Start out with one Hero's level and go clockwise around the table each time you have to roll on a Monster table. This way everyone will end up fighting a more balanced battle every time. Sometimes the two Level 3 Heroes have to fight Level 4 Monsters, and sometimes the Level 4 Heroes have to fight lower-level Monsters.


Monster Tables and the Event deck
Probably the easiest way to implement the Monster Tables is to continue to use the Event deck for the basic game, with one modification: When a non-Monster event comes up deal with it as the card indicates. If Monsters of any kind are indicated, just refer to the appropriate level Monster table instead of what's on the card.



Luck will save your life
Aside from leveling-up, Event 1,6 when traveling to a settlement presents an opportunity to buy a "Lucky Charm". There's a chance for it to be fake, but pay the gold regardless. Even if it's your last 50 gold pieces. At advanced levels there'll be opportunities where you'd gladly pay 2000 gold just to get a re-roll of any sort!
Once you get luck, don't squander it. Just because you rolled a 1 for the Event in the second room doesn't mean you need to use a luck to re-roll it. Save your Luck for times when rolling the dice has a chance of killing a Hero out-right. There are plenty of them!! Likewise, if you haven't used your luck by the end of the Dungeon and you've made it to town, go gamble, or use your Luck to ensure that the Elven Armour is in stock.... at this point you're going to get the Luck back very soon (start of the next Quest).


Starting/Ending Quests (or exiting and entering a dungeon)
The rules state that your Wounds, Luck, etc don't recover until the start of the next Quest. This means if you finish a Quest on one Wound it won't go back to full until you are about to step into the next dungeon. Technically, you start fresh when you begin a dungeon. Now, you could stretch this a little and say that every time you step out of the dungeon and step back in you're at full Wounds, etc. presumably because you're Hero was able to safely make camp outside and rest.

This raises an important point. You could walk around the first few rooms of a quest, encounter some Monsters... maybe it goes badly and you burn through some Luck, several characters are badly wounded and the Wizard has spent most of his reserve Power. There's nothing stopping the party from leaving the dungeon, healing back to full and coming back in fresh. This can also be abused ridiculously. What if the first room is a Dungeon room (one of the ones guaranteed to have Monsters in it)? You could walk into the first room, fight, get gold and treasure, walk out and step right back in again, over and over. In computer games this is called mining. It's do-able, but not so good.
Here's some things to consider or incorporate:
1) You only get your Wounds, Luck, Wizard's Power, etc. back when you have COMPLETED a quest AND are ready to start the next quest.
2) Similarly, if you leave the dungeon prematurely, you forfeit any gold you have gained while exploring and battling, perhaps even forfeiting treasure as well.
3) If you generated the monsters, you have to face them. For example, if you are using the Monster tables in the RPG book to generate higher level monsters and things go badly (maybe you're level 4 and you got a couple of bad rolls and have ended up fighting a room full of Lv 6 monsters), you can't just run out and reset everything. Once Monsters are placed in the dungeon, they should have to remain on the board until they are cleared/killed. Why would a Necromancer and 15 of his summoned minions suddenly disappear because you walked outside for a few minutes and then came back in? Heroes/Players should have to work around these problems cleverly, and there are ways to avoid big bad guys - things like cave-ins, the portcullis, pits, running our of range to use missile weapons, funneling Monsters into narrow corridors, etc. In any case, any triggered monsters should still be left in the dungeon in case you ever have to backtrack.



The Lantern
The Role Play Book suggests each character/player should get a turn as party leader by taking the Lantern. Of course this should be clarified and agreed upon by all. Personally, I feel like it should be shared between those who want to carry it. Of course by rights it is the Barbarian's starting equipment, so if several players argue he should not be forced to give it away all the time, then just go with what works for your group. Sharing becomes important because at higher levels there will be some encounters where the Hero attacking first can clear out many monsters, leaving too few for the other Heroes to get a fair share of the gold. If that doesn't sound so awful, consider playing 10 or more quests where the Wizard lets a massive spell like Firestorm or Vortex of Destruction (both 12-cost spells) go right off the bat, raking in 4x or more gold than anyone else will in that room. He'll soon be easily a level higher than the rest of the party.
Our mistake was letting the Barbarian SELL the Lantern for a pittance and then new character has some form of ownership of the Lantern. My suggestion, in retrospect, the Lantern is worth ZERO gold. If another player wants to carry the Lantern they can take it for one Quest, then it defaults back to the Barbarian. If someone else wants it next Quest, no problem, they can have a turn too. Once everyone who wanted to carry it gets a turn it goes back to the Barbarian for a Quest before circulation starts again.... but it ALWAYS goes back to the Barbarian by default.


Warp Jump
The Wizard's spell, Warp Jump, costs 7 points of Power and is one of the more powerful and versatile Spells in the game. It also leads to issues like being able to warp to the entrance at almost any point, allowing the party to exit and re-enter at any time -- in which case you should re-read Starting/Ending Quests and some of the notes on abusing the rules ;) But I digress. Warp Jump allows the Wizard and any adjacent Heroes to teleport to any previously EXPLORED portion of the dungeon immediately. If you've got the 7 Power to spare you can do some interesting things. One of the problems with long corridors is that it invariably takes two Event die rolls to get from one door to the next, like in this example:
Roll for an Event, move up 4 spaces. Roll for an Event, move up the last few spaces to the doorway, Explore (turn over the Dungeon card) and the end of the turn.
Congratulations, that's a 33.3% chance of getting a 1 on the Event die, with something bad often following. With Warp Jump you can reduce that to it's minimum: 16.7% chance (1 in 6). The way to do it: End eveyone's turn at a doorway in a formation so that they're adjacent the Wizard. During the Exploration phase, let's say you turn over a Corridor/Passage (those long 2x6 hallways). Once you have explored and found a corridor, even though you haven't set foot in there, it's considered EXPLORED for the technicalities of the Warp Jump spell. So you start the following turn by rolling the Event die, as long as you didn't get a 1 (and have the 7 Power for Warp Jump) the Wizard can immediately Warp Jump everyone in formation straight to the next doorway. Everyone else ends their turn, prompting the next Exploration phase. Congratulations, you just avoided rolling the Event die. In this regard Warp Jump is even better when you have to back-track to a T-junction. Keep thinking this way and you quests will go MUCH more quickly and you'll avoid a lot of trouble. Don't worry, there's always enough gold/treasure to level up and have fun! We've never had a problem anyway.
Warp Jump has also helped our party out when in a jam, such as in a crowded Objective room with some VERY tough Monsters that our Heroes are cut off from. As long as one of your party's tanks can get close to the Wizard, and as long as there are sufficient empty spaces available for you to Warp Jump in the exact formation to, then the Wizard can Warp Jump himself and the tank into the sweet spot.
This same idea works masterfully for avoiding huge Monsters who are about to decimate a group of Heroes. Even if you have to spend 7 reserve Power to do it, if the Wizard can Warp Jump the entire party to a safe location, then it's probably 7 Power well spent, as you can always heal later... but you have to be alive to do it!
Keep in mind, only Attack spells count as an attack. Warp Jump isn't an attack spell, so it can be cast before the Heroes move, after one Hero has attacked, but before the next Hero does or even after one Monster got in a lucky hit and took someone down to 1 Wound, you could Warp Jump out before the next hit is rolled.


Transport of the Damned
Unless the party has a death wish, or a LOT of luck, there's no surer way to die at high levels than to have the Wizard take you to a settlement using this spell. Just roll the hazards for traveling instead. They aren't that bad, for crying out loud. Transport of the Damned has a 16.7% chance of instantly killing a Hero being transported with the Wizard. The Hero is lost in the aether, never to return. There's no healing, no battling it out, just "rip-up-your-Hero-sheet-and-all-his-stuff", gone. The Wizard is always fine, so if he wants to avoid the hazards of travel, fine, but don't risk travel like that if you're not the spell caster. Similarly, if you have a party with 2 Wizards, only the caster is immune, not the other Wizard. Sure, Luck can let you re-roll the die in the event of a catastrophe, but it's a RE-ROLL with the SAME 16.7% odds again. Just don't do it is all I can recommend.


Freeze!
This spell costs 5 Power, and while it is highly variable: roll 1D6, the result equals the number of Monsters struck, as well as the number of Wounds they suffer. You can end up hitting one Monster for 1 Wound, or six Monsters for 6 Wounds. It's VERY good at most low levels.


Healing Hands
This spell only costs 2 Power and heals 1 Wound to everyone on the current board section. It's one of the MUST HAVE spells, so get it as soon as possible. This will ensure that you're healing every Hero a little bit almost every turn or heal everyone up several Wounds since you can cast it multiple times on a turn provided you have sufficient Power. The fact that it's a low-cost heal spell also ensures that the Wizard can almost always keep the other Heroes on their feet, when they reach zero Wounds the Wizard can spend the 2 Power to bring them back right away. This saves many a Hero during the early levels, and still sees regular use at intermediate and higher experience levels.


Pit of Despair
The Pit of Despair is another one of those flexible and useful spells that can be used cleverly to get you out of a jam. It's only got a 33.3% chance of swallowing up a monster on one of the squares that it occupies when it is cast, but it can be used strategically and defensively as well. If you are starting to feel like you're being overrun with Monsters, a well-placed Pit can isolate a group of Monsters from your party or buy you enough time to re-group while they maneuver around it. If you place the pit between yourselves and the entrance and your Wizard doesn't have the Warp Jump spell, then just make sure you still have a way out of the dungeon as not all objective rooms have an exit route in them! The pit is especially good if you can trap some powerful Monsters on the other side who do not have a ranged attack. By placing the pit in a corridor to give your Heroes some space between themselves and a group of Mummies (40+ Wounds and Tomb Rot, which hits anyone adjacent them and is Fatal Damage, meaning it can't be healed until next turn) this can give you the safe distance you need to pick them off with Bows, Crossbows and spells.


How far can Heroes and Monsters see in the Dungeon?
The rules for the Lantern state that it illuminates the current board section as well as those adjacent. So if you're using missile weapons or spells on targets within your line of sight, this implies that while in the dungeons you can only see through to the board sections which are adjacent to the Lantern. For example, with board sections A, B and C (separated by doorways marked as "|"):
A|B|C|D|
The Elf is in room A
The Barbarian with the Lantern is in room B
and there are Monsters in rooms C and D.
The Elf can only shoot arrows into room C, but cannot target Monsters in room D.
This same rule does not necessarily hold true for the Monsters! The Monsters can apparently see just fine in the dark as they don't use lanters, but in any event here we have a group of Heroes walking around in the dark with a source of light, illuminating all of them. That's like a bullseye for Monsters! This should make it very easy for Monsters further away to target the Heroes. So going with our example above, if there are Orc Archers in room D, they should be able to shoot arrows at the Elf in room A, even though from the Elf's perspective the arrows are coming from the darkness beyond the Lantern light.
Feel free to modify or adjust this as you see fit. Having Monsters cast spells or fire missile weapons from five or six board sections away may be too powerful. Our group sticks with a rule that Monsters can see one additional board section further than the Heroes (so up to two board sections beyond the one they are on).


Solo Play
Warhammer Quest is a stellar game for solo play, absolutely great. If you're going to play solo, then you've GOT to stick to the rules. No cheating or deciding to give yourself a re-roll because you don't want to lose your Hero to the Fire Chasm. Keep yourself honest and roll with the punches. The #1 goal should be to have fun. Then again, if you let yourself cheat, who's going to notice? ... although usually part of the thrill of cheating I would think would be to get away with something someone else you're playing the game with wouldn't let you. But anyway, play as you like, but try to keep yourself playing the actual game and its rules ;)


These are just a few of the tidbits of things we have encountered and I have learned from several years playing Warhammer Quest. But the #1 rule, as with any game is to just keep having fun. If you don't like some of the ideas or comments listed above, then keep playing to suit your group's style and likes.

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Hello, Nicodemus,

You have several well-thought-out comments here. So, I gave you a "thumbs up" I give here just a few comments about what most got my attention.

Tracking the warriors' turns to receive treasure is absolutely essential.

I hadn't really thought much about the lantern and the issue of how far the warriors and monsters can see to shoot. Your comments on this issue seem very logical. By the way, I often forget that magic using monsters are at -1 to be hit by ballistic weapons. Just thought I would mention it here, since it seems to sort of fit in at this juncture.

I really like the idea of speeding up the game and avoiding some possible events by the use of the Jump spell.

I heartily agree with your assessment of the Transport of the Damned spell. Oh, and you are definitely on the mark about how important luck is in such a game where a warrior's life often balances upon the roll of a dice.gulp

I am afraid that I have been guilty sometimes of "cheating" in many of my solo games -- primarily, during the first one or two adventures, when my warriors were just "not up to the challenge". Probably the thing I have been most guilty of has been the re-rolling of the Pit Fighter's Heal-Itt Potion when there wasn't any luck left with which to re-roll -- usually because the silly potion "ran out" (rolled a 1 for its effects, or a 1 or 2 in the case of using it to heal another warrior) very early in the adventure. Those who have played the Pit Fighter will certainly understand this dilema.

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nod sleepyland
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Faith and Luck make the Witchhunter the most livable character in a long game. There so so many things that can instantly go wrong in this game that only the Wizard with his insane spells and potions can match.

+ stat rings. I forget their names atm, but always, always + attacks. So powerful at any stage of the game. + luck is always nice if you don't have any charms.

Just a couple small insights I had.
 
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Daniel Kearns
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Harv wrote:

My advice: use your Healing Hands card as a bookmark. It almost completely removes the drama of being reduced to 0 wounds, and makes your party almost unkillable while the Wizard lives. ...
WHQ should be HARD!


Totally totally agree. Healing Hands is the very definition of the word: broken. It totally screws the game. It takes WHQ from being "Whoa Hard" to "Mailing it in".

Always castable. Prevents all deaths. Never have to think about it. Dumb as hell.
 
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Old post, but still read by newcomers to the game. Listed are some corrections and clarifications to these Tips and Strategies.



Nicodemus_ wrote:


Tracking Treasure and Objective Room Treasure
Since the Barbarian ALWAYS draws first, he's never missed from one game to the next, but usually the Wizard and Dwarf get shafted because we never draw exactly enough Treasure for everyone to get an equal number of cards.



The Barbarian does not draw first. Nor do the Warriors take turns getting Treasure in any order. The Barbarian (or party leader) ALWAYS draws the cards, but then can decide who gets the item! As stated in the Rulebook on page 26 TREASURE:

"The party leader (usually the Barbarian) takes the top card off the Treasure deck. The player may decide whether to keep the treasure for himself or give it to one of the other players. However the leader must always share out the Treasure cards equally between all the Warriors."



Nicodemus_ wrote:


Early Quests and early (read: low) player levels

The Heroes and level 1 Monsters and Events (the ones in the Event deck for the main game system) are fairly evenly matched.


The Monsters and Events are far superior to the Warriors at Level 1 until the Warriors manage to get to a Settlement where they can purchase better bandages and provisions which will give them a better chance of survival. Even then, the odds are never even and the Monsters always have an edge.



Nicodemus_ wrote:



The Monster Tables
Once you begin to advance levels the Monsters in the Event deck will pose less of a threat and you'll want something more challenging. Similarly, if everyone is at Level 3 and you are still fighting the Monsters in the Event Deck (which are Level 1 Monsters), then it is going to take a very long time to get to successively higher levels. After you pass Level 1, you'll probably be looking to use the Monster Tables from the RPG book.
In theory there's a couple of ways you could use the tables, depending on the party's level, and the first is simple:


As mentioned in the Roleplay Book, you do use the Event Cards in the Advanced Game, but you do not use the Monsters or Events printed on them. Instead you use the Event Table and Monster Table (corresponding to the Warriors' level) in the Roleplay Book.



Nicodemus_ wrote:


Starting/Ending Quests (or exiting and entering a dungeon)
The rules state that your Wounds, Luck, etc don't recover until the start of the next Quest. This means if you finish a Quest on one Wound it won't go back to full until you are about to step into the next dungeon. Technically, you start fresh when you begin a dungeon. Now, you could stretch this a little and say that every time you step out of the dungeon and step back in you're at full Wounds, etc. presumably because you're Hero was able to safely make camp outside and rest.

This raises an important point. You could walk around the first few rooms of a quest, encounter some Monsters... maybe it goes badly and you burn through some Luck, several characters are badly wounded and the Wizard has spent most of his reserve Power. There's nothing stopping the party from leaving the dungeon, healing back to full and coming back in fresh. This can also be abused ridiculously. What if the first room is a Dungeon room (one of the ones guaranteed to have Monsters in it)? You could walk into the first room, fight, get gold and treasure, walk out and step right back in again, over and over. In computer games this is called mining. It's do-able, but not so good.



Warriors cannot camp outside and must either enter another dungeon immediately (rolling randomly in the Adventure Book) or try to travel to a Settlement.

If the Warriors leave the current dungeon and re-enter, they are continuing in the same dungeon. As mentioned in the Roleplay Book on page 39 BLOCKED ROUTES when re-entering the Dungeon after a Portcullis or Cave-In may have blocked your route and after exiting by the alternate route:

"You may now play the whole adventure again from scratch, or go back down the dungeon that is already laid out."

That means that the Dungeon Room encountered earlier has already been explored and you do not draw another Event Card in that room. And since you are going back down the dungeon already laid out, you have not completed any Adventure, so therefore your Wounds, Luck, etc. do not reset.

And if restarting from scratch, the cards should be reshuffled and the dungeon layout begins anew. One who restarts a Dungeon and has to reshuffle the cards over and over again just to abuse the system has way too much time on their hands and i can't believe that anyone else playing the game with them would sit idly by wasting so much time when they could be playing...



Nicodemus_ wrote:


The Lantern
The Role Play Book suggests each character/player should get a turn as party leader by taking the Lantern. Of course this should be clarified and agreed upon by all. Personally, I feel like it should be shared between those who want to carry it. Of course by rights it is the Barbarian's starting equipment, so if several players argue he should not be forced to give it away all the time, then just go with what works for your group. Sharing becomes important because at higher levels there will be some encounters where the Hero attacking first can clear out many monsters, leaving too few for the other Heroes to get a fair share of the gold. If that doesn't sound so awful, consider playing 10 or more quests where the Wizard lets a massive spell like Firestorm or Vortex of Destruction (both 12-cost spells) go right off the bat, raking in 4x or more gold than anyone else will in that room. He'll soon be easily a level higher than the rest of the party.
Our mistake was letting the Barbarian SELL the Lantern for a pittance and then new character has some form of ownership of the Lantern. My suggestion, in retrospect, the Lantern is worth ZERO gold. If another player wants to carry the Lantern they can take it for one Quest, then it defaults back to the Barbarian. If someone else wants it next Quest, no problem, they can have a turn too. Once everyone who wanted to carry it gets a turn it goes back to the Barbarian for a Quest before circulation starts again.... but it ALWAYS goes back to the Barbarian by default.



The proper way to determine the party leader is clearly covered in page 10 THE PARTY LEADER.



Nicodemus_ wrote:


How far can Heroes and Monsters see in the Dungeon?

This same rule does not necessarily hold true for the Monsters! The Monsters can apparently see just fine in the dark as they don't use lanters, but in any event here we have a group of Heroes walking around in the dark with a source of light, illuminating all of them. That's like a bullseye for Monsters! This should make it very easy for Monsters further away to target the Heroes. So going with our example above, if there are Orc Archers in room D, they should be able to shoot arrows at the Elf in room A, even though from the Elf's perspective the arrows are coming from the darkness beyond the Lantern light.
Feel free to modify or adjust this as you see fit. Having Monsters cast spells or fire missile weapons from five or six board sections away may be too powerful. Our group sticks with a rule that Monsters can see one additional board section further than the Heroes (so up to two board sections beyond the one they are on).



Actually, the Rulebook states on page 15 MONSTERS WITH MISSILE WEAPONS:

"These Monsters are placed as far way from the Warriors as possible, whilst remaining on the same or adjoining Board Section and still able see their target."


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Thanks for the feedback and clarifications Littlemonk, but I think you missed the point of those specific topics.

I appreciate that you're sticking to the rules as they are laid out the Rule Book and Roleplay book, however, I must point out that the sole intent of my post was to point out where these rules clearly do not work when playing over a protracted period of time.


the_bummer wrote:

Nicodemus_ wrote:


Tracking Treasure and Objective Room Treasure
Since the Barbarian ALWAYS draws first, he's never missed from one game to the next, but usually the Wizard and Dwarf get shafted because we never draw exactly enough Treasure for everyone to get an equal number of cards.



The Barbarian does not draw first. Nor do the Warriors take turns getting Treasure in any order. The Barbarian (or party leader) ALWAYS draws the cards, but then can decide who gets the item! As stated in the Rulebook on page 26 TREASURE:

"The party leader (usually the Barbarian) takes the top card off the Treasure deck. The player may decide whether to keep the treasure for himself or give it to one of the other players. However the leader must always share out the Treasure cards equally between all the Warriors."



The purpose of my original posting was to help players avoid this pitfall when playing dozens of games with the same characters. The whole idea of one player always getting to look at the treasure cards first and decide who gets what is the rule, you're right. Sadly, it patently does not work. Nobody likes that rule in any of the games or groups of people I have gamed with, and to be honest, it sets up a lot of animosity toward the Barbarian (or who ever the party leader is). It's also simply unfair as the party leader will always cherry pick the best stuff. Obviously that's the point of being able to share the Lantern (see below) but we play with a couple of people who just want to tag along and have fun, but don't want the job of carrying the Lantern.

Part-and-parcel with this is the real reason for my posting on this rule. Players must keep track of who has gotten treasure. Counting up how many Treasure cards are in-hand doesn't work to determine whether treasure has been shared fairly because treasure can be lost, used up or sold. After one or two missions everyone thinks they know how fair the Treasure deal-outs have been, but it's often not reality. After several months it's just not possible to ensure it's been done fairly. A simple table with checks indicating when a Warrior/player has gotten treasure is the important take-home message so that everyone can have a friendly game where players don't get upset after 12 months of gaming with the same party of Warriors.



the_bummer wrote:

Nicodemus_ wrote:


Early Quests and early (read: low) player levels

The Heroes and level 1 Monsters and Events (the ones in the Event deck for the main game system) are fairly evenly matched.


The Monsters and Events are far superior to the Warriors at Level 1 until the Warriors manage to get to a Settlement where they can purchase better bandages and provisions which will give them a better chance of survival. Even then, the odds are never even and the Monsters always have an edge.


I have to disagree here. In all of our games over the past 10+ years we have found the first 1-3 missions are the hardest. After the party gets more Treasure and equipment the enemies are much easier and the chances of annihilation or even the loss of a single Warrior is slim. Similarly, at intermediate Battle-levels, (i.e. 4, 5, 6) we generally find that very few of the Monsters are given the edge and although we might have a few close calls the missions are generally passable. It's only at Dungeon-levels 9 and 10 that the Monsters become significantly more difficult again and there's that sense of immediate death for the whole party lurking beyond the next die roll.


the_bummer wrote:

Nicodemus_ wrote:


The Monster Tables
Once you begin to advance levels the Monsters in the Event deck will pose less of a threat and you'll want something more challenging. Similarly, if everyone is at Level 3 and you are still fighting the Monsters in the Event Deck (which are Level 1 Monsters), then it is going to take a very long time to get to successively higher levels. After you pass Level 1, you'll probably be looking to use the Monster Tables from the RPG book.
In theory there's a couple of ways you could use the tables, depending on the party's level, and the first is simple:


As mentioned in the Roleplay Book, you do use the Event Cards in the Advanced Game, but you do not use the Monsters or Events printed on them. Instead you use the Event Table and Monster Table (corresponding to the Warriors' level) in the Roleplay Book.



If you read the notes in the original post there are specific problems that players need to think about for parties with mixed Battle-levels. In particular, if a party has a Barbarian and a Wizard at Battle-level 2, while the Elf and Dwarf are still at Battle-level 1. How difficult should the Monsters be? Should they all be Dungoen-level 1 Monsters, all Dungeon-level 2? There are several things to consider in these cases and ultimately the players must pick an option that doesn't just give them the easiest set of enemies to face.

This issue is amplified when playing with parties comprised of a bigger spread of Battle-levels. We've played missions where Warriors were each a Battle-levels 3, 4, 6, and 7. Then it's a big problem because the Battle-level 3 guy is in real trouble a lot of the time, but by the same token we all agreed that not every battle should be made up of Dungeon-levels 6 and 7 Monsters.

the_bummer wrote:

Nicodemus_ wrote:


Starting/Ending Quests (or exiting and entering a dungeon)
The rules state that your Wounds, Luck, etc don't recover until the start of the next Quest. This means if you finish a Quest on one Wound it won't go back to full until you are about to step into the next dungeon. Technically, you start fresh when you begin a dungeon. Now, you could stretch this a little and say that every time you step out of the dungeon and step back in you're at full Wounds, etc. presumably because you're Hero was able to safely make camp outside and rest.

This raises an important point. You could walk around the first few rooms of a quest, encounter some Monsters... maybe it goes badly and you burn through some Luck, several characters are badly wounded and the Wizard has spent most of his reserve Power. There's nothing stopping the party from leaving the dungeon, healing back to full and coming back in fresh. This can also be abused ridiculously. What if the first room is a Dungeon room (one of the ones guaranteed to have Monsters in it)? You could walk into the first room, fight, get gold and treasure, walk out and step right back in again, over and over. In computer games this is called mining. It's do-able, but not so good.



Warriors cannot camp outside and must either enter another dungeon immediately (rolling randomly in the Adventure Book) or try to travel to a Settlement.

If the Warriors leave the current dungeon and re-enter, they are continuing in the same dungeon. As mentioned in the Roleplay Book on page 39 BLOCKED ROUTES when re-entering the Dungeon after a Portcullis or Cave-In may have blocked your route and after exiting by the alternate route:

"You may now play the whole adventure again from scratch, or go back down the dungeon that is already laid out."

That means that the Dungeon Room encountered earlier has already been explored and you do not draw another Event Card in that room. And since you are going back down the dungeon already laid out, you have not completed any Adventure, so therefore your Wounds, Luck, etc. do not reset.

And if restarting from scratch, the cards should be reshuffled and the dungeon layout begins anew. One who restarts a Dungeon and has to reshuffle the cards over and over again just to abuse the system has way too much time on their hands and i can't believe that anyone else playing the game with them would sit idly by wasting so much time when they could be playing...


I think you got my point exactly then. The options are to start the Adventure again from scratch or re-enter the same dungeon as it is laid out. But there's nowhere in the rules that explicitly states that you have to go to a Settlement and then start the next Adventure to regain your Wounds. Although nowhere in my post did I suggest restarting the whole dungeon from scratch - I was specifically talking about what happens when a party re-enters an already laid out dungeon... and I see you agree with me: Warriors don't get replenished and must continue on.


the_bummer wrote:

Nicodemus_ wrote:


The Lantern
The Role Play Book suggests each character/player should get a turn as party leader by taking the Lantern. Of course this should be clarified and agreed upon by all. Personally, I feel like it should be shared between those who want to carry it. Of course by rights it is the Barbarian's starting equipment, so if several players argue he should not be forced to give it away all the time, then just go with what works for your group. Sharing becomes important because at higher levels there will be some encounters where the Hero attacking first can clear out many monsters, leaving too few for the other Heroes to get a fair share of the gold. If that doesn't sound so awful, consider playing 10 or more quests where the Wizard lets a massive spell like Firestorm or Vortex of Destruction (both 12-cost spells) go right off the bat, raking in 4x or more gold than anyone else will in that room. He'll soon be easily a level higher than the rest of the party.
Our mistake was letting the Barbarian SELL the Lantern for a pittance and then new character has some form of ownership of the Lantern. My suggestion, in retrospect, the Lantern is worth ZERO gold. If another player wants to carry the Lantern they can take it for one Quest, then it defaults back to the Barbarian. If someone else wants it next Quest, no problem, they can have a turn too. Once everyone who wanted to carry it gets a turn it goes back to the Barbarian for a Quest before circulation starts again.... but it ALWAYS goes back to the Barbarian by default.



The proper way to determine the party leader is clearly covered in page 10 THE PARTY LEADER.


For the benefit of those who don't have their rules handy - The Roleplay book indicates that at the start of each adventure a Warrior counter be drawn to indicate who leads the party this adventure (and therefore who carries the Lantern).

It goes on to say that at the start of subsequent adventures the party may:
A) choose another Warrior counter
B) let the turn pass clockwise around the table to the next player, or
c) if all players agree the same Warrior may lead the party for more than one adventure.

I should clarify: We play with a mixed group of players and characters. From one month to the next it's never the same player/character sitting in the next position clockwise around the table - this also assumes we even remember who had the Lantern last Also, it's not always the same players playing and if there are some players who don't want the Lantern and some who do it can get very difficult to sort out who gets a turn. We've resorted to the random draws (picking a Warrior counter) but if the same person who wanted the Lantern 3-4 months ago still hasn't gotten it and players can't remember who exactly did have a turn 3-months ago then there needs to be a better system.

That's just my experience and obviously we could have been doing a better job keeping track. As as I admitted, it was a really dumb and stupid mistake for us to have allowed the Lantern to be taken for Gold. In that case it was someone's legitimate turn to carry the Lantern (only two people ever wanted to carry the Lantern at that point) but our toughest Warrior wanted an extra turn and was offering a lot of Gold for the chance. In the end we just said 'fine' so that we could move on and get into the game. Again, bad move, totally dumb mistake on our part and totally against the rules and I'm disappointed I relented and pet precedent with that party. Live and learn. We keep better track now.

Of course as party leader that player also gets first draw of Treasure and gets to pick who gets what. If you're playing by this rule then it's doubly important that the Lantern be shared as evenly as possible among those who want it. Again - based on my experience just write out a table with a number of columns for each Warrior and put a tick mark in their column when they get Treasure. 12 months later nobody has any excuse for saying they don't get their share of treasure in any individual game.

the_bummer wrote:

Nicodemus_ wrote:


How far can Heroes and Monsters see in the Dungeon?

This same rule does not necessarily hold true for the Monsters! The Monsters can apparently see just fine in the dark as they don't use lanters, but in any event here we have a group of Heroes walking around in the dark with a source of light, illuminating all of them. That's like a bullseye for Monsters! This should make it very easy for Monsters further away to target the Heroes. So going with our example above, if there are Orc Archers in room D, they should be able to shoot arrows at the Elf in room A, even though from the Elf's perspective the arrows are coming from the darkness beyond the Lantern light.
Feel free to modify or adjust this as you see fit. Having Monsters cast spells or fire missile weapons from five or six board sections away may be too powerful. Our group sticks with a rule that Monsters can see one additional board section further than the Heroes (so up to two board sections beyond the one they are on).



Actually, the Rulebook states on page 15 MONSTERS WITH MISSILE WEAPONS:

"These Monsters are placed as far way from the Warriors as possible, whilst remaining on the same or adjoining Board Section and still able see their target."


Right, but it doesn't say how far away they can shoot or how far their line-of-sight extends. My point was that that rule simply does not work as-is beyond the simple introductory games. As soon as a group of Warriors divides up (maybe someone has the helmet that illuminates the dungeon like a Lantern) or the Wizard uses Warp Jump, you'll have Monsters spread far and wide and if they're 5 board sections away at the end of a long corridor but are in a straight line to the Warriors you need to decide if they can see you and likewise if you can see them. Can a group of Chaos Dwarfs armed with Blunderbusses really fire from 20-30 squares away and hit their target? Is it fair to Warp Jump down to the end of a 20-30 square long corridor and just pick off Mummies or Tomb Guardians as they slowly make their way toward the party? Range was never carefully considered but players should think about it. Even at Battle-level 1 if the Wizard throws down a Pit of Despair in a corridor to block an advancing group of Goblins with Bows the group may still be worrying about how far the Goblins can actually shoot.

Again, those were all just suggestions, strategies, thoughts and rules decisions we have agreed on over many, many games of Warhammer Quest. Gladly, just about everyone likes playing with the rules we have setup. We've only lost a few because of issues with the way Treasure used to be dealt out or things like how the Lantern was shared around. I don't blame people for not coming back. It's supposed to be fun. If you've wanted a turn with the Lantern for 4 months or just don't get dealt Treasure for an entire mission for what ever reason that's not going to be fun. Ultimately it's got to be fun, and because our group doesn't use a Dungeon Master we have to come to rules agreements by consensus when the rules in the Rule/Roleplay book just aren't cutting it.

~N
 
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Nicodemus_ wrote:
One of the problems with long corridors is that it invariably takes two Event die rolls to get from one door to the next, like in this example:
Roll for an Event, move up 4 spaces. Roll for an Event, move up the last few spaces to the doorway, Explore (turn over the Dungeon card) and the end of the turn.
Congratulations, that's a 33.3% chance of getting a 1 on the Event die, with something bad often following.


Actually, it's a 30.6% chance that you'll roll at least one 1 over the course of two Event rolls. The probability of an Event over two rolls isn't simply additive (that is, it's not just 1/6 + 1/6). Instead, think of it as the opposite of the probability of not rolling a 1 on either roll. You calculate this as 1 - (5/6)*(5/6) = 0.3055. Over n turns, the probability of rolling at least one Event is 1 - (5/6)^n.

dkearns wrote:
Harv wrote:

My advice: use your Healing Hands card as a bookmark. It almost completely removes the drama of being reduced to 0 wounds, and makes your party almost unkillable while the Wizard lives. ...
WHQ should be HARD!


Totally totally agree. Healing Hands is the very definition of the word: broken. It totally screws the game. It takes WHQ from being "Whoa Hard" to "Mailing it in".

Always castable. Prevents all deaths. Never have to think about it. Dumb as hell.


Does this work differently in the advanced roleplay rules? Because in the standard rules this is expressly forbidden (p.31, paragraph 2):

"The only time you can never cast a spell is to interrupt a hit. Once a Monster, Warrior, or anything else (like a trap) has 'hit' you have to work out any damage straight away. This is because the 'to hit' and 'damage' rolls are really the result of one continuous action, and although you make two separate dice [sic] rolls it would be inappropriate to interrupt them to cast a spell."

As far as I can tell, Healing Hands will not save you from a killing blow.
 
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Elstree, thanks for the clarification on the percentage. It's always helpful to think of these sorts of problems "the right way"... my example is a good one of how to miscalculate by taking short cuts in thinking through the problem


Elstree wrote:

dkearns wrote:
Harv wrote:

My advice: use your Healing Hands card as a bookmark. It almost completely removes the drama of being reduced to 0 wounds, and makes your party almost unkillable while the Wizard lives. ...
WHQ should be HARD!


Totally totally agree. Healing Hands is the very definition of the word: broken. It totally screws the game. It takes WHQ from being "Whoa Hard" to "Mailing it in".

Always castable. Prevents all deaths. Never have to think about it. Dumb as hell.


Does this work differently in the advanced roleplay rules? Because in the standard rules this is expressly forbidden (p.31, paragraph 2):

"The only time you can never cast a spell is to interrupt a hit. Once a Monster, Warrior, or anything else (like a trap) has 'hit' you have to work out any damage straight away. This is because the 'to hit' and 'damage' rolls are really the result of one continuous action, and although you make two separate dice [sic] rolls it would be inappropriate to interrupt them to cast a spell."

As far as I can tell, Healing Hands will not save you from a killing blow.


The Warriors will still get killed for sure. On p. 12 of the Roleplay book, in the section titled "Healing Warriors on Zero Wounds" it indicates that as long as a Warrior is healed back above zero Wounds by the end of the turn then all is well. He's only out of the game if the turn ends and he is on zero Wounds. One exception to this, however, would be the spells Resurrection, but that's another matter.

It still seems, however, that a Wizard who is reduced to zero Wounds is like any other party member, he needs a healing potion or magical healing item to save himself. Haven't read through the GW Q&A stuff for a long time, so it may be explicitly covered there.

 
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Elstree wrote:
Nicodemus_ wrote:
One of the problems with long corridors is that it invariably takes two Event die rolls to get from one door to the next, like in this example:
Roll for an Event, move up 4 spaces. Roll for an Event, move up the last few spaces to the doorway, Explore (turn over the Dungeon card) and the end of the turn.
Congratulations, that's a 33.3% chance of getting a 1 on the Event die, with something bad often following.


Actually, it's a 30.6% chance that you'll roll at least one 1 over the course of two Event rolls. The probability of an Event over two rolls isn't simply additive (that is, it's not just 1/6 + 1/6). Instead, think of it as the opposite of the probability of not rolling a 1 on either roll. You calculate this as 1 - (5/6)*(5/6) = 0.3055. Over n turns, the probability of rolling at least one Event is 1 - (5/6)^n.


You're actually both wrong. It's a 1 in 6 (16.7%) chance each time you throw a die, whether it's once, twice in a row, or 4,000 times in a row. The percentage always remains the same...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_distribution_%28discret...

Also look up Statistics and how they work.

 
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the_bummer wrote:
Elstree wrote:


Actually, it's a 30.6% chance that you'll roll at least one 1 over the course of two Event rolls. The probability of an Event over two rolls isn't simply additive (that is, it's not just 1/6 + 1/6). Instead, think of it as the opposite of the probability of not rolling a 1 on either roll. You calculate this as 1 - (5/6)*(5/6) = 0.3055. Over n turns, the probability of rolling at least one Event is 1 - (5/6)^n.


You're actually both wrong. It's a 1 in 6 (16.7%) chance each time you throw a die, whether it's once, twice in a row, or 4,000 times in a row. The percentage always remains the same...



I think you've misread what he said. You are correct that any individual roll has a 1 in 6 chance of coming up as a 1. However Elstree is providing the percentage chance that at least one of two separate rolls will come up as a 1. The chance that each individual roll comes up as a 1 is 1-in-6. The chance that at least one of the two dice will be a 1 is not.

His response and explanation are both correct (probably because he knows how statistics works )

-MMM
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You're wrong. Each die roll does not affect the outcome of further rolls.

http://www.knowyourluck.com/dice1.html
 
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You're talking about different things.
Yes, a single die roll will always have the same probability for the result '1' (1/6 if it's a perfect die).
Elstree is speaking about coming up with at least one '1' with two dice rolled. And he is right about it as well.
 
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Think of it this way, if I roll 1 six sided die sure the chance of seeing a one is is 1 in 6. Now if I roll 100 six sided die would you still tell me the probability that I was see a one is 1 in 6? No, the chance of seeing a 1 is incredibly higher when rolling 100 dice even dispite the fact that each dice still has the same 1 in 6 probability of showing a one. Hope that makes sense.
 
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stophle wrote:
You're talking about different things.
Yes, a single die roll will always have the same probability for the result '1' (1/6 if it's a perfect die).
Elstree is speaking about coming up with at least one '1' with two dice rolled. And he is right about it as well.


I don't believe we're talking about two different things. We're talking about two rolls over two turns (rolling 1D6 each turn).

 
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TazarYoot wrote:
Think of it this way, if I roll 1 six sided die sure the chance of seeing a one is is 1 in 6. Now if I roll 100 six sided die would you still tell me the probability that I was see a one is 1 in 6? No, the chance of seeing a 1 is incredibly higher when rolling 100 dice even dispite the fact that each dice still has the same 1 in 6 probability of showing a one. Hope that makes sense.


You would be correct. If you roll more than one die at the SAME TIME, it would increase your chances. But that's not what we're talking about. We are talking about rolling 1 Power Phase die each turn. Just because it takes 3 TURNS to get to a doorway doesn't increase the odds of a '1' occurring!
 
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the_bummer wrote:
TazarYoot wrote:
Think of it this way, if I roll 1 six sided die sure the chance of seeing a one is is 1 in 6. Now if I roll 100 six sided die would you still tell me the probability that I was see a one is 1 in 6? No, the chance of seeing a 1 is incredibly higher when rolling 100 dice even dispite the fact that each dice still has the same 1 in 6 probability of showing a one. Hope that makes sense.


You would be correct. If you roll more than one die at the SAME TIME, it would increase your chances. But that's not what we're talking about. We are talking about rolling 1 Power Phase die each turn. Just because it takes 3 TURNS to get to a doorway doesn't increase the odds of a '1' occurring!


I understand what your saying but I guess he's trying to show that if you cover the span of the hallway in one turn as opposed to 3 turns your making the opportunity to roll 1's during multiple power phases less. If a party of warrior were to sit and dilly dally doing nothing only moving 1 square each turn they will take much longer to complete a dungeon, the slower you move, the more turns you take, and the longer you take to explore and complete a dungeon the more 1s you will see throughout the game. Therefore I assume warping through empty hallways as quickly as possible will theoretically lower the number of 1s seen during the course of a whole dungeon.

Does that sound right?
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TazarYoot wrote:
the_bummer wrote:
TazarYoot wrote:
Think of it this way, if I roll 1 six sided die sure the chance of seeing a one is is 1 in 6. Now if I roll 100 six sided die would you still tell me the probability that I was see a one is 1 in 6? No, the chance of seeing a 1 is incredibly higher when rolling 100 dice even dispite the fact that each dice still has the same 1 in 6 probability of showing a one. Hope that makes sense.


You would be correct. If you roll more than one die at the SAME TIME, it would increase your chances. But that's not what we're talking about. We are talking about rolling 1 Power Phase die each turn. Just because it takes 3 TURNS to get to a doorway doesn't increase the odds of a '1' occurring!


I understand what your saying but I guess he's trying to show that if you cover the span of the hallway in one turn as opposed to 3 turns your making the opportunity to roll 1's during multiple power phases less. If a party of warrior were to sit and dilly dally doing nothing only moving 1 square each turn they will take much longer to complete a dungeon, the slower you move, the more turns you take, and the longer you take to explore and complete a dungeon the more 1s you will see throughout the game. Therefore I assume warping through empty hallways as quickly as possible will theoretically lower the number of 1s seen during the course of a whole dungeon.

Does that sound right?


Nope! You're assuming that over the course of a dungeon that each number would appear an equal number of times.

And it sound like everyone believes that the frequency of a 1 appearing increases each time it doesn't appear?! But that isn't how statistics work. You wouldn't know when the statistic would balance itself - 100 rolls? 1 million rolls?

It's no theory. You don't have a 33% (or a 30%) chance that you're going to get a '1' when rolling a die three times in a row. You would have to roll 3 dice at the same time to do what they're thinking. And that's very, very different.

My whole point is that they're wrong about the percentages. And i'm not misunderstanding what they're saying.


This is such an interesting and fascinating subject and i'm not the best at explaining it, but here's another link to check out.

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/56571.html

You want to know if the probability of having any one of the
six faces come up when you throw a die changes depending on how many
times you throw it. The answer is no. No matter how many times you
roll a die, the probability that a 3 will come up on a certain roll is
ALWAYS 1/6. This is because every roll of the die is exactly the
same. The rolls that came before do not change the rolls that will
come in the future. Said another way, the outcome of each roll has
nothing to do with the outcomes of the other rolls. In probability
language, the rolls are said to be independent.

remember that because the rolls of the die are independent, even
if you roll it 100 times, the probability of getting, say, 4, is still
1/6.


 
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You aren't catching an important term here. "At least". It doesn't matter if you roll one die three times or three dice all at the same time - if we are talking about rolling "AT LEAST" one result of 1 then all rolls are treated as a set.

Likewise, if you roll a single die 100 times in a row the chances that AT LEAST one of those rolls will be a 1 is going to be much greater than 1-in-6.

If you still don't believe me, then maybe we can hang out and make some bets on die results

-MMM
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Octavian wrote:
You aren't catching an important term here. "At least". It doesn't matter if you roll one die three times or three dice all at the same time - if we are talking about rolling "AT LEAST" one result of 1 then all rolls are treated as a set.

Likewise, if you roll a single die 100 times in a row the chances that AT LEAST one of those rolls will be a 1 is going to be much greater than 1-in-6.

If you still don't believe me, then maybe we can hang out and make some bets on die results

-MMM


Matthew, to actually think that your odds of rolling a 1 would be greater than 1 in 6 when rolling a die 100 times makes it clear that you're not educating yourself on the subject.

You're extremely confused if you think that rolling 3 dice at the same time is the same as rolling 3 separate dice over 3 separate turns. You are basing your argument on the Rules of Negation and Coincidence and they do not apply here, because unless you're using a Luck Point, you don't get to re-roll two times for a Power Phase in the same turn. That would be the only way to get the percentage you're talking about. These rolls are independent of each other and do not rely on each other whatsoever.

It appears that you're one of those people that relies entirely on luck, with the notion of, "I haven't rolled a 6 in a long time - i must be due for one!" It's what gamblers are commonly known for and that is why you would lose a fortune to the house. And i'd be happy to take your money, but i doubt it would teach you what you need to know. Each time i win you'd be telling yourself, "But i bet if i roll again, THIS time i'll get a 1!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy

 
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Chris toph
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"At least"
EDIT:
Not to SPAM more, but to back up Matthew:
I am a physicist, I should know ;-)
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Matthew M
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You are still ignoring what we are talking about here, which is leading you to the wrong conclusion. This has nothing to do with the Gambler's fallacy because we are talking about the individual rolls as a set prior to any dice being rolled. Now if we have already rolled the die 99 times and miraculously not rolled a single 1 then you would be correct (and no one here would disagree with you) that the chance of rolling a 1 on the 100th roll is 1 in 6.

But that IS NOT what we are discussing. We are discussing the chances of rolling AT LEAST ONE 1 on n dice before any dice have been rolled.

And I have graduate school level statistics training, so it is possible that I do know what I'm talking about. If you carefully reread this thread you'll find that you are arguing against something that no one else is actually saying.
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Matthew M
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Too much space has been taken here on probability arguments. To avoid further distracting from the review I invite anyone interested in continuing this discussion to start a new thread in the general forums about the topic. That will also have the benefit of getting the attention of other users who are likely trained in statistics and probability.

Let's refocus this thread on the strategy article. Thanks!
 
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Littlemonk
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Not to continue this thread in the wrong direction, but you were all correct. I was wrong and it was my misunderstanding. The formula he used was correct and the "at least" statement is the correct argument.

My mistake!
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