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Subject: Valley Games - Titan Reprint Rules Posted on BGG! rss

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Kevin Nesbitt
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I'm happy to report that I've posted the near-final rules for Titan to BGG. You should see it in the files section shortly (if some kind admin can fast-track the approval, I'd appreciate it).

I'd like to encourage fellow BGG'ers to have a look at this file. Because Titan is not yet at print, we can accept any errata changes that you might discover. It always helps having extra sets of eyes looking at our work!

Over the next few days, I'll give out a bit of geekgold here and there to people who post errata that they've noticed in this thread.

Your general comments are welcomed, but if you have errata to point out, please draw my attention to it by putting ERRATA somewhere in your post.

Happy Hunting!

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Jesse
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I'm really glad to see you guys putting these rules up for public inspection while there is still time to make changes.
I see so much errata that could be avoided this way. Kudos!
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This is a great idea, Kevin. Many eyes make bugs shallow and all that.

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Geoff H
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ERRATA

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for posting the rules.

The diagrams in section 7.5 seem to have some problems. The top two diagrams are repeated in the lower pictures. Also in the middle diagram on the right, it says that gray must move to the mountain. I thought that going to the mountains was always optional and that he could continue through the woods.

Hopefully the diagrams that were supposed to be included clarify movement better. This is the most confusing part of the game for new players, so it really needs to be spelled out.

I haven't found anything else yet, but I'm still looking.

BTW, I can't wait for this new edition. Good work!

Geoff
 
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Devin Smith
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ERRATA

Page 1, Rule 1.2

"TITAN involves two areas of play, Masterplay and Battle... "

The term 'Battle', is not mentioned again as an overarching term anywhere in this rule, and the word 'battle' is used in this rule, and in the following one, in lowercase as a generic word, not as a Game Term. Capitalising it in the last sentence ("Battle" instead of "battle") fixes some of the issue, but the sentence

"...battle the other Players' Legions in Engagements...."

in 1.3 is problematic: you just defined Battle as one of the alternatives that is available to resolve an engagment.

--
Devin
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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Quote:
Each character counter displays the character’s name, its sil-
houette, its Battle-factors, and symbols denoting special abili-
ties (if they have any).


I don't know if this is an errata, but I find it funny that the creature's picture is referred to as "silhouette". I wish it was actually true

-Jorge
 
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Ben Foy
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ERRATA

1.) The following wording of 4.3 could cause confusion. "But one of them must move if possible". In the case of a stack which is forced down to the bottom track and a stack on the bottom track which can move to the same spaces. If one of those stacks are split, the other stack can still move and block the split. The above quote implies that one of the split stacks must move, so the other stack woundn't be able to move.

2.) In the first paragraph in section 5, you should mention that the number of creatures in each caretaker stack is public knowledge. I.E. any player can ask to know the number of Gargoyles or Serpents. This is done frequently so its important to note that. I read section 18 and I didn't see the information there either.
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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ERRATA (Page 3, 4.5)

Quote:
The character counters in a Legion are stacked face down on
the Masterboard, underneath the Legion Marker, so that even
if a stack is disturbed, its character are not revealed.


There was another in the same paragraph:

Quote:
To avoid
confusion, player who wishes to examine one of his own stacks
should leave its Legion marker on the Land which it occupies
as he does so


There should be an "a" or "the" before "player".
 
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Jim Cote
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I will dig into the content later, but visually these are very nice rules: layout, colors, and typography. I'm not a fan of the red/brown mix, but it works ok.
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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ERRATA? (Page 4, 7.3)

Quote:
The Signs are of four types: Blocks, Spheres, Arrows, and Triple
Arrows. The top of each Sign touches the Land toward which it
points. The single-symbol Signs (Blocks, Arches, and Arrows)
exist only in pairs pointing in opposite directions.


Is "Arches" supposed to be "Spheres"?

-Jorge
 
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ERATTA:

Section 11.3
No closing parethesis for the phrase "(exception: see Cliffs on the Hazard Chart."

 
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Jeb Adams
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ERRATA: From this page.

"Our store may be down for a couple weeks, we will update our news page once it is back open as well we will post an announcement on Boardgamegeek.com advising the new store is open."
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Jorge Arroyo
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ERRATA (Page 5, 9)

Quote:
(see sections 14and 15,
Reinforcements and Summoning Angels)


 
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Jorge Arroyo
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ERRATA? (Page 5, 9.4)

There are a couple of white circles over the text in this section. I'm not sure this is the fault of the pdf or my reader, but just in case...
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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ERRATA (Page 5, 10)

Quote:

Battle is resolved in consecutive turns
called Battle Rounds, during which ea ch player conducts an
individual Maneuver Phase
 
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Jeb Adams
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ERRATA: Page 13 (SLOPE)

NATIVE: Ogre, Lion, Minotaur, Unicorn, Dragon, Colossus.
EFFECTS ON MOVEMENT: A non-flying non-native is slowed
when moving up across a Slope.
EFFECT ON STRIKING: A native character adds one die when
stinkingstriking down across a Slope. A non-native character loses
a Skill factor when striking up across a Slope.
EFFECT ON RANGESTRIKING: A rangestrike may cross one
or two Slopes only if the hex Slope hex is occupied by either
the rangestriker or the target. A rangestrike may cross three
slopes if the rangestriker or the target is directly atop the
third Slope. A rangestrike may cross a Slope or Slopes before
or after crossing a Cliff if the rangestriker or target occupies
the hex atop the Cliff. (Exception: see 13.5).

Check all of the the "(Exception: see 13.5)" entries as some are incorrectly capitalized (like for Dune) some lack full stops (like this one for Slope or Wall).

Dragons also stink down slopes in the Volcano entry on Page 12. The entry for Bog could use a little clean-up:
BOG
NATIVE: Ogre. Troll. Ranger, Wyvern Hydra. <--these should be commas with the full stop only after Hydra.
EFFECT ON MOVEMENT: Entry forbidden to non-flying nonnative
characters. A flying non-native character may not
end his move on a Bog hex.
FFECT ON STRIKING: No effect.
EFFECT ON RANGESTRIKING: No effect <--needs a full stop.
 
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Graham Smallwood
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jeblucas wrote:

Dragons also stink down slopes in the Volcano entry on Page 12.


Errata errata, that stink should be strike as well.
 
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Geoff H
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ERRATA

I'll try not to include any errata mentioned above.

9.1 - 2nd line, should read "and must complete each engagement"

10.5 -- the third sentence should read "At the beginning of each of the attacker's Maneuver phases, advance the marker one box." Each turn is two maneuver phases, not one.

11.2 -- remove "maximum" from the end of the first line for clarity

11.3 -- I think that on the third line, it should read "contact with each other and cannot move (exception" in order to clarify what locked in combat means.

11.6 -- move the diagrams under 11.3 and 11.4 respectively
11.6 -- the caption for the troll diagram is confusing, perhaps something like "The troll would need 3 movement in order to move through the plain hex and then enter the sand."

12 -- I believe that in the old version, Rangestrikes occurred first and there was no opportunity for battlebacks. Is this a rule change?

12.1 -- Somewhere in the Rangestrike discussion there should be a reference to 13.2.

12.3 -- I may be remembering incorrectly, but I thought that you lost one die of attack during a 4 hex rangestrike, not one skill factor.
This also applies to some of the terrain effects on rangestrikes.

13.5 -- this diagram of the slopes seems out of place, but I can't find exacctly where it belongs. Probably in the rangestrike section near 12.4.

Hazard Chart -- The Drift and Volcano are missing the list of native creatures.

Dune, Effect on Rangestriking - 2nd line should read "dune only if the Rangestriker or targe occupies the hex"

Cliff, Effect on Striking -- 2nd line, delete "Adjacent characters separated by Cliff."

Wall, Effect on Rangestriking - 6th line should read "or the target occupies the Tower's center hex and neither"

Strike Chart -- These numbers seem wrong and contradict the example in 13.4. I'm sure they are different from the Avalon Hill version. An attacker of skill 2 vs. a defender of skill 4 should need a 6 to hit. The numbers in the table make it too easy to get hits. I hope this is a mistake, as it would seriously unbalance the game.
I found the mistake -- the first column for the Defender's Skill Factor should be "2,3,4" not 3,4,5"

Character Chart -- The cyclops should be 9,2,-,-,18. It seems to have gotten the dragon's numbers.

That's it. When can I expect to receive the game??

Geoff



 
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Bob Rademaker
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ERRATA:

Suggestion for higher clarity paragraph 4.3: Before rolling the movement die (6.2), a player may split any of his Legions into two or three separate Legions of at least two characters in each Legion. This is done by secretly arranging the characters from the original Legion into separate stacks and placing new Legion markers on the additional stack(s). This new group of Legions is placed back on the same Land where the original Legion was. This is the only time that multiple Legions of a player may exist on the same Land- during the Commencement Phase (6.1). By the end of the Movement Phase, if possible, these split Legions MUST BE ON SEPARATE LANDS as a result of movement of one or more of the split Legions as necessary. However, a player’s own Legion need not be moved to create an open land to accomplish this separation. If separation of the split Legions is not possible, any multiple Legions on the same Land are recombined into one Legion at the end of the Movement Phase.

6.2 middle of paragraph: “or until” should read “or move until”

7.5 The top two left examples are identical, as are the top right and bottom left examples.

8 middle of paragraph needs a space between the number “14” and the next word “and”.

9.4 At end “Loaded” should read “Full” to be consistent with 4.1

10 Third sentence needs the space removed between “ea” and “ch”.

11.4 “Hazards Chart 11.7” should read “Hazards Chart”

12.1 Add (13.4) after the words “carry over”. “between their Battle-factors” should read “above their Power Factor”.

12.2 Remove dash between “Power” and “factor”.

12.4 Just before the Rangestrike diagram there are two references to 13.5, they should be references to 12.6. Also, “Hazards Chart 11.7” should read “Hazards Chart”. The paragraph under the rangestrike diagram has a hyphen between rang and estrikes’, should be range-strike’s. Also, note that apostrophe should be between e and s. Alos, if you are noting that there are two paths to E, both paths should be shown on the rangestrike chart, with a 2 on the alternate shaded hex.

13 Remove dash between “Power” and “factor”.

13.2 Remove dash between “Power” and “factor”.

14.2 Change “so long as he is qualified to do so” to “if the winning Legion is qualified to muster.”

15.2 “so long as” should read “as long as”.

16.2 Remove dash between “Power” and “factor”.

18.3 There is no hypen in the last word “alterna” to carry over to the top of the next column. Near the end, remove the space in the word “Dragon” just before the parenthesis.

18.5 “Or, eligible Legions” should read “Alternatively, Legions”

19.1 Remove dash between “Power” and “factor”. (5 places)

19.2 Remove dash between “Power” and “factor”.

19.3 Remove dash between “Power” and “factor”.

19.4 “Angels” should read Angels/Archangels”. (2 places)

21 decided should be hyphenated deci-ded.

I suggest discussing the best way to reduce play time: By reducing the number of battles through liberal use of the negotiation and fleeing options. Players should be able to do this increasingly as they gain experience with battles.

In the Hazard Chart for Tree, the reference for Rangestriking should be 12.6, not 13.5.

In the Hazard Chart for Bramble, the reference for slowing when entering the hex should be (11.4), not (11.5). Also, the reference for Rangestriking should be 12.6, not 13.5.

In the Hazard Chart for Drift, add (see 11.4) after the effect on movement text. Remove the open parenthesis in the effect on striking text.

In the Hazard Chart for Sand, add (see 11.4) after the effect on movement text.

In the Hazard Chart for Dune, the reference for Rangestriking should be 12.6, not 13.5.

In the Hazard Chart for Cliff, the reference for Rangestriking should be 12.6, not 13.5.

In the Hazard Chart for Slope, add (see 11.4) after the effect on movement text. Also, the reference for Rangestriking should be 12.6, not 13.5.

In the Hazard Chart for Wall, add (see 11.4) after the effect on movement text. Also, the reference for Rangestriking should be 12.6, not 13.5. Remove the hyphen from Skill-factor (3 places).

The Strike Chart is missing rows for Defender Skill factor 1 and 2.
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Mick Weitz
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This is a good idea.

Good Gaming~! Mick
 
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Kevin Nesbitt
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As usual, the BGG faithful never fail to impress. Thanks to everyone who has chimed in so far.

I've sprinkled a little GG around here as thanks. I don't have a whole lot of GG to share, but I hope you'll accept Valley Games' thanks as well. Our gratitude far outweighs the limited GG that I'm able to pass out.

EDIT: A big thanks to the BGG'ers who have passed me some GG. I'll make sure it ends up in good hands, and if this test run works out, we might just consider making pre-publication rule sets available a lot more often.
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Ben Foy
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Keep checking in, it will take a week to really go through those rules.
 
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John W
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1) Great idea to show the rules to knowledgeable Titan players before public release, to catch errors and such.
I believe I suggested this when you first announced the reprint.

2) This SEEMS like a lot of errors so far (even the Strike Chart?), especially for a reprint/copy - what are people's opinions on this?

a) Do you think more should have been fixed before getting this far?
b) Do the amount, and type, or errors concern you as a fan of the game? (thinking that perhaps these errors indicate a lack of understanding the game by the publisher)
c) Does it matter at all what knowledge of the game the publisher has?
 
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Diz Hooper
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It's great to see that Valley Games is planning to release an error free rulebook. Great idea, Kevin.

 
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Ryan Powers
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reapersaurus wrote:


2) This SEEMS like a lot of errors so far (even the Strike Chart?), especially for a reprint/copy - what are people's opinions on this?


As long as "this far" isn't "actually printed", it's all fine with me.
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