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Subject: Trading variant? rss

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The Seal of Approval
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Now I have this wonderful game sitting on my shelf, and most of my regular gaming friends don't want to play it (after 1 try).
For them, this game lacks player interaction. Now I'm sure there's some subtle things going on with taking actions that other players can't take anymore, but it's just that: Subtle.

Now trading would be a thing that might rouse a bit more interest. It would fit the theme nicely, too - neighboring farmers trading stuff, or even helping each other out.

What I thought was like: You can trade resources, animals and movable goods (you could, for example, trade a plough, but not an oven).

You can also offer to work on someone else's farm, using your occupation bonuses (but obviously, you'd want something in return).

For example, if you are good at fence building, you might offer your neighbour: "Tell you what, I'll build your fences." (YOU take the fence-building action with your own person) "You provide the wood, and in return, you expand my house." (let's say, he has some occupation that makes it cheaper to do so). "I'll provide all the resource you need for that."

I guess "helping out" should be restricted to things that require an action (not like, e.g. the baker, who can bake during harvest, but requires no action to do so. We'd soon have one player baking bread for everyone - which makes sense, but would probably be too powerful).

Thoughts?
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I like the concept and I agree about the baker. I would limit each player to 1 active trade per turn. There's just not time to be running to everybody's farm to drop things off. Also if Player 1 proposes a trade with Player 2 and it goes through then Player 2 can't propose another trade with Player 1 that turn.

What happens though when player 1 and 2 decide to trade, player 1 does his part and then before player 2 can do his part, player 3 beats him to the action?

Would the terms be enforcable?

Would direct trades take an action? Maybe there should be a market space that any number of people can go to and only those at the market can trade but they can trade as much as they like.
 
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Tim Myers
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Interesting!

I really like Agricola "as is" and the people that I game with also really enjoy it but ... this sounds very interesting.

My family had a farm that we raised pigs on while I was in High School and the neighbors and us were borrowing equipment and helping each other out. That worked for us then and you see examples of farmers helping each other in movies, television, books, history and so on.

I am not sure how the mechanics would work but maybe there is an expansion planned that allows more interaction between farms?

The only problem that I see is where 2 players (husband & wife, best friends, gaming buddies, etc.) only help each other out and the other players are on their own. So it is basically those 2 players (working together) against the 3 individual players. Or worse yet you have 2 couples that are helping out each other and a single player that is on their own.

An interesting idea but I am not sure how it will effect the balance of the game.

 
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The Seal of Approval
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Well, the effect on the balance of the game is the main reason I'm asking the Agricola veterans to have their say.

I would not demand a separate action to make a trade, I feel this would be too costly.
A restriction to 1 active trade / turn and player might be sensible.

The problem about couples etc. only / mainly trading with each other is a given in any game involving trading. I guess it could be worst in 3-player games.
 
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Marshall Miller
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In 3 player, if everyone trades but you, you should get a free food. Same for 5 player.
 
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Tim Myers
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We have not used the "I" interactive deck yet but I think we are going to try it on for our next game. Or at least give each player 2 or 3 of their 7 cards from the "I" deck.

Did you use the "I" deck when you played? It is supposed to add more interaction between the different cards and other players. Maybe your friends would like that better. From what I understand you can either use a mix of cards from each deck or play with just one kind of deck.

If you like interaction between players then maybe just try using the "I" deck for both Occupations and Minor Improvements and see how that plays.
 
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Asperamanca wrote:
Now I have this wonderful game sitting on my shelf, and most of my regular gaming friends don't want to play it (after 1 try).
FOOLS! Find a new gaming group immediately.

Quote:
For them, this game lacks player interaction. Now I'm sure there's some subtle things going on with taking actions that other players can't take anymore, but it's just that: Subtle.
You must be playing too much Lord of the Rings* or something. This isn't a cooperative game. And there's nothing subtle about the competition. "Oh, look he gets extra food for having sheep. Let's everyone make sure he doesn't get any sheep!" or "Wow, he gets DOUBLE food when catching fish; go to the catch fish space instead of day laborer!" (Both of those are real examples from our play)

Quote:
Now trading would be a thing that might rouse a bit more interest. It would fit the theme nicely, too - neighboring farmers trading stuff, or even helping each other out.

Thoughts?
This makes the game too much of a political game. As it is, you can win by beating the other players. However, if they want to focus on bashing the leader, they can each use an action to take away his most likely actions, forcing a change in strategy. Trading makes this more overt and ruins the balance of the game I think.

It *MIGHT* be fun, but it takes it out of the realm of Caylus-type strategy, and into the realm of Diplomacy.

* Yea, I looked!
 
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The Seal of Approval
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out4blood wrote:
You must be playing too much Lord of the Rings* or something.


Not with that group, no.

out4blood wrote:
This isn't a cooperative game.


Oh, I guess they would also be happy if they could burn down the other player's house. They like Wally, after all.

out4blood wrote:
And there's nothing subtle about the competition.


Well, at least it isn't "in your face" enough. Or so I assume.


out4blood wrote:
Find a new gaming group immediately.


If you ever drop by Vienna, give me a line, will ya?
 
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Asperamanca wrote:
Now I have this wonderful game sitting on my shelf, and most of my regular gaming friends don't want to play it (after 1 try).
For them, this game lacks player interaction. Now I'm sure there's some subtle things going on with taking actions that other players can't take anymore, but it's just that: Subtle.


Based on the cursing and name calling that occurs when we play it, the player interaction in our group is far from subtle
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