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Subject: Radar - Clarification rss

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Kurt Over
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Caught this on the Compass Games - Silent War forum

And realized that I'd been handling radar a touch wrong. Bolded what I was missing, and it would make for a change in tactics; e.g. the order targets are flipped.

Also I've been flipping everything if the TDC value was >= the number of ships. Looks like I don't have to do that, and might be able to avoid a few more escorts.

- Kurt

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Just caught this. The rules in question is 14.12:

The requirement of this rule is that

1) The choice to unflip must be made immediately.
2) That there must be a replacement target for the unflipped target.

Relevant to this discussion is the unwritten notion that a submarine whose tactical rating exceeds the number of available (able to be revealed) targets flips all available targets.

Discussion. The purpose of this rule is to keep the number of targets statistically maximized in accordance with the tactical rating, the underlying assumption of which is- the more capable the submarine- the more it would be exposed (and expose itself) to targets-of-opportunity. On the other hand, the radar option is meant to allow a player the ability to unflip a target that a submarine skipper might just rather avoid when in a great deal of target traffic.

Thus, in the case above, in the period 1943-1945, a player with a submarine capable of flipping more targets than there are targets available- may, if they so choose, reveal and unflip any target but the last: the governing rule is 2) That there must be a replacement target for the unflipped target.

Example: A submarine with a tactical rating of five (5) encounters three (3) targets. The player may reveal and flip either target-1 or target-2, as in both cases, there is a target that can be revealed still. Target-3 may not be unflipped because there are no targets left to take its place.

The governing logic is that the written rule (radar bonus) takes precedence over the unwritten notion that you reveal all targets if the submarine’s tactical rating is equal to or greater than the number of targets.

This affirms the discussion referenced by Entemedor.
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Wouldn't you be forced to reflip the unfliped target? You've got to flip those ships.
 
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Kurt Over
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GeneSteeler wrote:
Wouldn't you be forced to reflip the unfliped target? You've got to flip those ships.


That's how I was treating it... Since tactical rating was '4' (for instance) I'd have to end up with four revealed chits.

Looks like if the initial draw is less than that (e.g. 3) then you get to flip all three, but have any option to re-flip the first or second. And since the first or second was already "viewed" I guess you are not forced to go back to it in that combat round. (Though if you stay for a Re-Attack round then you flip it.)

I've found a few threads over in the Compass Games forum that challenge how a rule should be played. I'm following up on one currently regarding wolfpack Re-Attacks that has me scratching my head.

(Someone interpreted the Re-Attack rule for a wolfpack as an all-or-nothing thing. All the subs in the wolfpack that initially attacked have to qualify for (and make) the Re-Attack, or *none* of them get to do it. That makes my posted example *very* wrong, so I'm trying to get some clarification.)

- Kurt
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owktree wrote:

(Someone interpreted the Re-Attack rule for a wolfpack as an all-or-nothing thing. All the subs in the wolfpack that initially attacked have to qualify for (and make) the Re-Attack, or *none* of them get to do it. That makes my posted example *very* wrong, so I'm trying to get some clarification.)

- Kurt


That just seems wrong. 24.55 states that if the member fails it's re-attack roll the submarine must withdraw, but is still a member of the pack. It goes on to state the each member rolls and if successful it may participate in the re-attack. So IMHO you're doing it right.
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Kurt Over
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New version of the FAQ included this -

Wolfpacks
Q. May fewer than three submarines attack as a wolfpack if some of their number are unable to
make their interception roll as a barrier pack [24.32] or are unable to make their re-attack roll
[24.55]?
A. Yes. So long as the pack itself consists of three or more submarines.


The latter half of the question addresses my wolfpack question. So it appears that the thread on the Compass forum is not correct and that I am handling wolfpack Re-Attack correctly.

Makes me feel better about wolfpacks. I figured the roll was sufficient penalty since 40-50% of the subs would miss out on the opportunity that a single sub always gets. Plus you'll get the "what the heck? Am I the only one here?" on occasion as a single sub makes the roll and has to stick its head back into a meatgrinder of revealed ASW without anyone else to draw their attention. (Though if there is a lot of air/escorts revealed I might just opt out completely before making the rolls.

- Kurt

P.S. - The FAQ also had a radar question along the lines of this thread; e.g. if you have a Tac Rating of 4 and 4+ Rising Sun and some Meatball during Re-attack you can re-flip the 4th Rising Sun and then flip a Meatball (since you fulfilled the requirement to initially flip four Rising Suns.
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