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Subject: Shuffling remaining start worlds? rss

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Jeffrey Speer
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When you begin play and randomly hand out the start worlds, do you shuffle the remaining start worlds into the deck?

We were wondering about this as we played our marathon games last night, and our consensus leaned toward yes since the cards have costs and victory points listed, but I thought I should ask. Any help is appreciated!
 
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Bill Parker
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Yes.

on-line rules (pg 2, under SETUP) wrote:
Shuffle the unused start worlds together with the game cards.
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Jeffrey Speer
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hodji wrote:

on-line rules (pg 2, under SETUP) wrote:
Shuffle the unused start worlds together with the game cards.


D'oh! I thought I read it closely enough Thanks for clearing it up though!
 
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Phillip Heaton
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You are supposed to do so, but we've found that it is easier not to do so. It cuts the downtime between games by five minutes, on average. I don't think the world that is left (we normally play 4 player games) is worth hunting for the other world after the game is over.
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B C Z
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At end of game:
Everyone pulls their start world (you now have 2-4 of them).

If anyone has any other start world in their hand, on their board or as a good (flip 'em anyway to get 'em all the same facing), pull them.

If you have less than five, one person takes the discards and the other takes the draw deck and fans them, hunting the upper left corner for the squared number(s) that is(are) missing.

Now, if you're hunting for starting hands... that might take some time, but finding the homeworlds really isn't that difficult.

 
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Cameron McKenzie
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The big red and blue squares on the bottom right and top left of the card are very large and extend close to the edge of the card. You can just fan all of the cards out and you can spot all of the starting worlds pretty easily. I can't imagine that finding 5 very clearly marked cards out of 114 can take 5 whole minutes.
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James Ludlow
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Philgamer wrote:
You are supposed to do so, but we've found that it is easier not to do so. It cuts the downtime between games by five minutes, on average. I don't think the world that is left (we normally play 4 player games) is worth hunting for the other world after the game is over.


I'm failing to think of a scenario where 4 people couldn't find the 5th start world in under 15 seconds. Where is the other 4:45 coming from?

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Flying Arrow
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Philgamer wrote:
You are supposed to do so, but we've found that it is easier not to do so. It cuts the downtime between games by five minutes, on average. I don't think the world that is left (we normally play 4 player games) is worth hunting for the other world after the game is over.


If New Sparta is the missing home world, a person pursuing a military strategy could certainly use it.
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Dave J McWeasely
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Better Method:

Each player takes a roughly equal chunk of cards.

Each player sifts through and takes the first homeworld s/he finds as their own.

In 1-3 player games, you're probably done right there.

In a 3-4 player game, you might have a player with no homeworlds in their deck fragment. They take the remaining unsifted cards from the player on their left and look there. If still no luck, then the player two to the left, and so on, until a world is found.

In such games, players who've found a Homeworld can continue to sift the additional homeworlds, since they'll probably be needed.
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Roland Wood
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I gather all the cards after the game and shuffle them. Then I flip the deck face up and start fanning through the deck. The first exposed homeworld goes to the player on my left the next one to the next player the next one to the next and the last to me. Next game the winner is the new dealer.

+ You only have to find four instead of five homeworlds.
+ You don't have to mix up homeworld cards face down and wait for people to pick
+ You don't have to shuffle the remaining one back into the deck
+ You don't have to worry about everyone remembering to set their homeworld aside at the end of a game.
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Cameron McKenzie
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Why wouldn't you have to shuffle the remaining start world back into the deck? If you grabbed the first 4 start worlds you found while fanning through the deck and then didn't reshuffle, then you'd always end up with the remaining start world near the top of the deck. That's not shuffled. In a truly shuffled deck, any card has an equal chance of being at any position in the deck.
This might not bother you, but it bothers me.
How it hard it is to find 5 home worlds that are clearly marked in the corner and take seconds to find if you fan the cards, mix them, deal out 2-4, then shuffle the deck? If you shuffle the deck before giving out the home worlds, then you just have to shuffle again. But you have to shuffle anyway, so you might as well deal out the homeworlds before you even start shuffling.
 
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Anthony Rubbo
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Another method is to buy 25 copies of the game, and just pull out the correct deck for the appropriate number of players and selection of starting planets
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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LemonyFresh wrote:
Another method is to buy 25 copies of the game, and just pull out the correct deck for the appropriate number of players and selection of starting planets


A more practical yet still silly suggestion: Get five tokens. Label them 0-4. Play with those as the start worlds, discard the unused tokens aside. During the course of the game, if anyone sees a card that corresponds to a token in play, substitute it and draw another card to replace it.

For extra silliness, anyone who still has a token when the game is over gets an extra VP.
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Cameron McKenzie
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Adrian Bolt wrote:
Roland's method sounds good and quicker to me; Cameron's point is easily addressed by shuffling a second time. That might not make it any quicker than the separate from the deck and pick method, but more time is devoted to shuffling and therefore making the deck more random.


The issue of the 5th homeworld being near the top of the deck is only part of the problem. If you looked through the deck for the first 4 homeworlds, then it's entirely possible that you caught a glimpse of a few cards (the bottom card at the very least) and you have to reshuffle anyway. If your going to shuffle the deck after you look through it, what purpose is there in shuffling it before you look through it?
 
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Tom Lehmann
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Shuffling the unused start worlds back into the deck becomes more of an issue when more new start worlds are added in the expansions...
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Roland Wood
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Shuffling the unused start worlds back into the deck becomes more of an issue when more new start worlds are added in the expansions...


This brings up a question that I have. With so many new cards being added in with the expansions how do 2-3 player games play? Are you able to cycle through the deck enough? Please don't tell me we will have to remove cards for fewer numbers of people!!
 
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John Paul Sodusta
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Roliander wrote:
Tom Lehmann wrote:
Shuffling the unused start worlds back into the deck becomes more of an issue when more new start worlds are added in the expansions...


This brings up a question that I have. With so many new cards being added in with the expansions how do 2-3 player games play? Are you able to cycle through the deck enough? Please don't tell me we will have to remove cards for fewer numbers of people!!


Very good point. I would like to know the answer as well.
 
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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Roliander wrote:
This brings up a question that I have. With so many new cards being added in with the expansions how do 2-3 player games play? Are you able to cycle through the deck enough? Please don't tell me we will have to remove cards for fewer numbers of people!!


With more cards in the deck, it will take longer to cycle through the deck. Those who prefer more deck-cycling are free to come up with their own variants that make that happen, if the amount of deck-cycling provided by the expansions and any included variants is not to their liking.

My personal opinion is that even with the base set, in a 2-player game the chances of deck-cycling isn't that high. So if you see a 6 that you think you'll really need, hold onto it for dear life. (Although more often than not, a 6 that I've been holding since the start of the game never gets built because eventually some other card comes that is clearly better.)
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Carc >> BSG
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For the record (if such a record exists) I keep the start worlds separate. Especially now that there are two expansions added in, the downtime isn't worth it to me to have other those start worlds in the draw pile. True, it might not take more than a few minutes, but those few minutes can be spent playing instead of looking.

It's no big thing, just my preference.
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Philip Thomas
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With R vs I method more start worlds are dealt out initially. In a 6 player game all start world will be dealt initally and then 6 will go into the discards. I think with less than 6 players a similar approach of all non-chosen start worlds to the discard pile would work too (no need to shuffle startworlds into the draw deck until the reshuflle when you're shuffling anyway).
 
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Jordan Booth
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I shuffle them in because the rules say to do so and it only takes a few seconds.

Here's the secret:
You don't have to reshuffle the entire deck to randomly distribute the start worlds back in. Just shuffle up the remaining start worlds and stick them in the stack randomly (I try to spread them out pretty evenly too.)
 
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