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Subject: Does anyone use the timing variant? rss

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Mike P
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From the cwali website...

Quote:
Variation rule:
Instead of 25 turns for both players (the 25 'minutes') you can start the black minutes-counter on number 16 (instead of number 1) and shift it one number further everytime when one player rolls a 1 (a 1 in the kick-off turn and the turns after scored goals don't count).
Then the game lasts untill the 10th time with 1 pip on the die. In that way there is always a chance for both players to win the game, untill the last turn (but in theory the game then can last until eternity).


If the counter starts at 16, why do you play until the 10th roll of '1'? Is this just a misprint? How long do you play overtime? Does anyone prefer this variant, or do you just stick to 25 minutes?
 
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I've not played this variant. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

With 'time' fixed at 25 turns, a player will know what is possible with the last few die rolls, which can lead to a fairly uninteresting end game in some matches.

An unknown 'time' element introduces hope of a come back or last gasp winner before the final whistle. Should help keep the matches interesting until the end.
 
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Mike P
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D'oh! I figured out why it is 10 turns...starting at 16 and going to 25.

mudhoney wrote:
I've not played this variant. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

With 'time' fixed at 25 turns, a player will know what is possible with the last few die rolls, which can lead to a fairly uninteresting end game in some matches.

An unknown 'time' element introduces hope of a come back or last gasp winner before the final whistle. Should help keep the matches interesting until the end.


Yeah, that is why it interested me, and I'm surprised I haven't heard anyone talking about this option. Of course the problem is that the game lengths could vary greatly (with a longer average of 60 rolls).

Another option would be to play the regular fixed length way and then add on 'extra time' until the first person rolls a '1'.


Edit: fixed spelling
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It's the only way I play. Mainly because we always forgeting to move the timer, whereas seeing that 1 roll is easy to remember.
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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
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Injury Time !!!
We have tried this variant today (we forget quite often to move the timer too), but the duration can be so different from game to game that I didn't like the idea.

On the French forum trictrac someone posted a good compromise between a 2x25 moves' game and an uncertain end of the match:

http://www.trictrac.net/index.php3?id=jeux&rub=detail&inf=av...

You start the timer at 6, play as the standard rules, BUT in order to get to the 25th and 26th spaces one player has to roll a 1 (so when at 24, you need to roll twice a 1 to end).

This represents the Injury Time, the game is about 50 moves long but you don't know exactly when the referee will end the match!

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Ulrich Roth
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fanaka66 wrote:
From the cwali website...

Quote:
Variation rule:
Instead of 25 turns for both players (the 25 'minutes') you can start the black minutes-counter on number 16 (instead of number 1) and shift it one number further everytime when one player rolls a 1 (a 1 in the kick-off turn and the turns after scored goals don't count).
Then the game lasts untill the 10th time with 1 pip on the die. In that way there is always a chance for both players to win the game, untill the last turn (but in theory the game then can last until eternity).


If the counter starts at 16, why do you play until the 10th roll of '1'? Is this just a misprint? How long do you play overtime? Does anyone prefer this variant, or do you just stick to 25 minutes?


In principle, I much prefer this variant, because I find counting turns the standard way a major turnoff (and incidentally quite inelegant as far as game design is concerned).

BUT the alternative rule, as suggested by the author, has a fatal flaw, in my opinion:

A game with a disproportionately high number of ONEs, which will inevitably happen from time to time, is not only shorter than average but also, on top of it, will see very little action due to the low average numbers.

That is why some years ago I suggested to the author using SIXes instead of ONEs. The shorter than average games would then at least get their fair share of potentially scoring rolls. (In fact, all games would get exactly the same amount of those rolls.)

However, Corné quite rightly pointed out to me that ending the game by rolling a SIX is less than ideal, because it reduces the chances of the trailing player to score a last minute equalizer (with that very SIX).

The best solution I can think of is therefore timing the game with nine SIXes and then one ONE which ends the game.
I have played it like this many times in over-the-board play and it works a treat.
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Miguel (working on TENNISmind...)
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For those not knowing, the Iberian new edition (renamed Mano a Mano) has adopted this variant as the official timing mechanism. Well, the 9th 1 ends the game, not the 10th (each turn represents 10 min). This is the distribution of number of turns (rolls) needed to get the 9th 1 I obtained running a small code:


After 10,000 "games", the average is 54.0, but the shortest game was only 13 turns!!!
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Paulo Santoro
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I think the game is "good as it is".

laugh Just kidding!

But I mean it. You see, any time someone come here with a variant to "reduce luck" (including me), people tell the mantra "the game is good as it is". But now the designer himself changes and... put more luck in it! shake

At least, when we have 25 rounds, we have a control about this. Now we do never know if the game will end with 20, 23, 28, 31 rounds.

I didn't like it. I call it just a "variant", and I will keep playing the game as it is.

 
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I always play games as they are... but now, in Spain and Portugal, the timing variant is the way Streetsoccer is!
They don't even propose the old way as a variant, although there are no 25 spaces along the board, so no way to use it easily.

Last summer I played the World Cup with my brother, sons and nephews, with the Mano a Mano board. We all liked it much better! No need to remember the clock every turn, and very different matches. I lost in semifinals 0-1 in a very short game, I didn't have the time to come back... but it was great!


BTW, we introduced a way to add penalty kicks after a draw in extra time: the attacker chooses a number on his die and covers it with his hand, and the keeper then chooses to stay at the center or move to the left/right box of the goal, 1-2 being left, 3-4 center and 5-6 right. It was extremely tense!!!
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What about an "additional time" like in real football? After round 25, we roll the die, and:

1 2 Game over
3 4 + 1 minute
5 6 + 2 minutes

 
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Similar to what I posted above ("injury time"):
franchi wrote:
You start the timer at 6, play as the standard rules, BUT in order to get to the 25th and 26th spaces one player has to roll a 1 (so when at 24, you need to roll twice a 1 to end).

But now that I have the new "Mano a Mano" board I think I'll always play with their move-1-turn-every-1-rolled official rule, we all had fun that way.
 
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Paulo Santoro
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franchi wrote:
Similar to what I posted above ("injury time"):
franchi wrote:
You start the timer at 6, play as the standard rules, BUT in order to get to the 25th and 26th spaces one player has to roll a 1 (so when at 24, you need to roll twice a 1 to end).

But now that I have the new "Mano a Mano" board I think I'll always play with their move-1-turn-every-1-rolled official rule, we all had fun that way.


I had read that, but then again we could have a game with 26, 28, 31, 35, 37 rounds... just when I was about to like the game, they add this level of chaos...
 
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