Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » General

Subject: Problem with sample play.. need help! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I read the rules and now tried to set up the sample play in the scenario book. It starts out easily enough on map 1 with what I assumed to be scenario one. I want to learn more about objectives and setting everything up so I am glad they go over everything.

Unfortunately, it must not be using scenario one... It says to start off on time 0 when Scen 1 says 2. It says 4 SD when scen 1 says 7. It says Axis defends when it says recon for both in scen 1. Etc.

Did they make up a scenario for the sample play?

Question about objectives. When setting up a scenario. The objective draws that are for each side, Axis,etc are secret if they have a secret side and open if they have 2 open sides? Is that how they work?

If so, why in the sample play are the open chits put into the secret areas?

Going to try to follow the rest of the sample play.. but so far, I can't even compare the setup to the rules for scenario one to see why they set things up as they did!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Heimburger
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The example of play was most likely a randomly generated scenario. So it wouldn't match up with any of the scenarios printed in the play book. The point is to help players understand how the game flows, which I think it does very well.

When setting up a published scenario, the scenario will tell you how the objective chits go. In some cases, scenarios won't have any secret objectives.

I think the playbook includes instructions on how to read the printed scenarios, so check there again.

But, if you start with the "Year" box under the situation report, and follow the arrows from one box to the next, you'll have it set up in no time.

Have fun!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Alright 2 questions then:

1. When setting up a pre-generated scenario, how do objectives work? For the axis/allied picks, if they have "secret" on the back, they are hidden and if they are open on both sides, it just goes into the center and is open?

2. Explain the charts for order of battle and support.. it only briefly mentions it in the manual... I can't figure out what they mean. In the sample play, germany is line 2. What does that mean exactly? 2 orders per turn and what does Line mean? How do I use these numbers to figure out anything on the OB player guides?

Thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Yes, it is a random scenario set-up. To answer your questions:

(1) Read the first gray box under 7.3.3: Nate that a few of the Objective chits have no "secret" side - if a player draws on of these as their secret Objective, tough luck: it must be revealed as an open Objective

(2)The Order of Battle is used to select forces in a random scenario. Read RS.5 in your CC:E Playbook. The Support Table is used for certain actions or events like Hidden Unit, Reinforcements, Infiltration.

But you also ask about OB Stats. Line/2 does mean that the German gets 2 orders per turn. The Line is the quality of the German side (Ref. 4.3.1). If a German squad deploys (or suffers light wounds) - it is replaced by a Line team. (Ref. E52.1, A36)

Edit: As to where does this come from?
The Germans have a Rifle Platoon (F Plt) from the German Order of Battle. You will see that the quality is given as Line and the number of orders as 2.

(The Russian deployment is not on the Order of Battle - closest is Guards Rifle Platoon (U Plt) but that has 5 squads not the four set-up in the Example That at least is Elite with 2 orders.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
shadow9d9 wrote:
If so, why in the sample play are the open chits put into the secret areas?


As they are open, it doesn't matter where they are placed. If they were secret, it makes sense to place them in the player's box so it is easier to remember who can peek at the hidden objectives. As this is an example - I expect they were placed on the player's side to show how the scenario has 1 open and 2 "secret" objectives. It just happens that the "secret" objectives have no secret side so are revealed to both.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ok, I got it. So the order of battle chart is ONLY used in custom scenarios?

Did about 1/3 of the scenario tonight. One more question. For recover orders, in the manual it says "If the active player has more than one broken unit, he chooses the order in which those units will be affected."

Is this decision before or after a roll is made?

Thanks again!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Corban
Canada
Newmarket
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shadow9d9 wrote:
Question about objectives. When setting up a scenario. The objective draws that are for each side, Axis,etc are secret if they have a secret side and open if they have 2 open sides? Is that how they work?

If so, why in the sample play are the open chits put into the secret areas?

You are correct.

I am not sure why the sample would have the open chits in the secret areas, but it doesn't really matter where they are as far as gameplay is concerned.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
shadow9d9 wrote:
So the order of battle chart is ONLY used in custom scenarios?


Yes. And perhaps as a starting point if you want to design your own scenario.

Quote:
For recover orders, in the manual it says "If the active player has more than one broken unit, he chooses the order in which those units will be affected."

Is this decision before or after a roll is made?


Before. You indicate the unit for whom you are making the recovery roll. Then check the result to see if it made it or not. No cherry-picking the results to recover the units you want. Same when making a defense roll with multiple units in a hex. You indicate the unit first, then make the roll.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RPardoe wrote:
shadow9d9 wrote:
So the order of battle chart is ONLY used in custom scenarios?


Yes. And perhaps as a starting point if you want to design your own scenario.

Quote:
For recover orders, in the manual it says "If the active player has more than one broken unit, he chooses the order in which those units will be affected."

Is this decision before or after a roll is made?


Before. You indicate the unit for whom you are making the recovery roll. Then check the result to see if it made it or not. No cherry-picking the results to recover the units you want. Same when making a defense roll with multiple units in a hex. You indicate the unit first, then make the roll.


Great, thanks for the help! I am sure I will have even more tomorrow. Have to understand the game thoroughly so I can teach my wife : ).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
And we will be hear to help and answer. So just have fun and enjoy the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chadwik
United States
Santa Rosa
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
I am not sure why the sample would have the open chits in the secret areas, but it doesn't really matter where they are as far as gameplay is concerned.

Basically, the players' individually-drawn objectives were kept in their "secret" sections of the Objective Chits box as a simple visual reminder of who drew what.

In any case, it doesn't really matter where players put any open objectives. I've seen players place them into the relevant hexes on the map, or put the "double elimination points" one in the middle of the Casualty Track as a reminder of its effect.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chadwik
United States
Santa Rosa
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Great, thanks for the help!

CC has a great group of knowledgeable players willing and eager to help.

Welcome to the Dark Side, Darth!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DId the 2nd 1/3 of the scenario and have the following questions, starting with these easy ones.

1. Snipers can only kill enemies, correct?(not your own)

2. Advance is the only way to go into melee? Can't with move, right?

3. What is the opposite side of the suppressed chits used for? Example- "Allied OB V detachment"

4. On turn 3 Russia Fire- "activate the team"... this is a bit vague, but it obviously means the infantry gun unit.... just found it odd.

5. For Turn 5 Hidden Action, could he have chosen the Volksgrenadier instead? What does the 2 for weapon team/light mg or 1 for volks mean? Victory points if exiting the screen or what they are worth if killed?

Could he have chosen to put them in N6 in an attempt to use one order to march them off the side of the map?

6. In turn 7- can an opp fire be used to make 3 separate attacks or must it be used with the entire fire group? He can't use op fire to attack I-5 because of the Blaze blocking?

7. In turn 9, could he have also activated the rifle in the hex if he wanted?

Will get through the rest of the sample game tonight.

Thanks again!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Heimburger
United States
St. Louis
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shadow9d9 wrote:
DId the 2nd 1/3 of the scenario and have the following questions, starting with these easy ones.

1. Snipers can only kill enemies, correct?(not your own)

Incorrect. Note the use of the word "may" in the rules for Sinper triggers. I can't think of a case where you'd want to do away with one of your own units, but it's possible.

Quote:

2. Advance is the only way to go into melee? Can't with move, right?

Correct

Quote:

3. What is the opposite side of the suppressed chits used for? Example- "Allied OB V detachment"

Those are (can be, anyway) used with the random scenario generator to select your OB for the game. The letter matches with one column on the OB sheet for the Allied factions.

Quote:

4. On turn 3 Russia Fire- "activate the team"... this is a bit vague, but it obviously means the infantry gun unit.... just found it odd.

Not entirely sure, (it's been a while since I went through the example) but I'd guess there's a Team of some sort that possesses the IG.

Quote:

5. For Turn 5 Hidden Action, could he have chosen the Volksgrenadier instead? What does the 2 for weapon team/light mg or 1 for volks mean?

Can't comment without going back to the example, which isn't handy just now.

Quote:

Victory points if exiting the screen or what they are worth if killed?

Correct.

Quote:

Could he have chosen to put them in N6 in an attempt to use one order to march them off the side of the map?

Need example for reference. Again, it's not at hand.

Quote:

6. In turn 7- can an opp fire be used to make 3 separate attacks or must it be used with the entire fire group? He can't use op fire to attack I-5 because of the Blaze blocking?

Op Fire is good for as long as the Move Order is in effect, i.e. until all activated enemy units have completed their movement for the Order.

Quote:

7. In turn 9, could he have also activated the rifle in the hex if he wanted?

See my other comments re: specifics of the example.

Quote:

Will get through the rest of the sample game tonight.

Thanks again!


Have fun!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alpha Mastrano
Australia
Heidelberg
Victoria, Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1. When you get a Sniper! Trigger, you may choose to break (not kill outright, unless the unit chosen is already broken) one unit in the random hex drawn. The rules say one may "select one unit in or adjacent to that [random] hex and break it" (1.9.1.3), so I guess theoretically you can choose to break your own unit if you want to.

2. Yes, you can only move into enemy hex and melee with an Advance order (except perhaps by special scenario rules, like in Scenario 17).

3. The OB chits are for selecting your units when using the random scenario generator (see RS.5 in the Playbook).

4. At this point in the game, there's only one Team on board, which is the Russian Weapon Team, so it's unambiguous. (Note the definitions of Unit, Squad, and Team, btw).

5. Yes, the Volksgrenadier squad could have been chosen. The numbers in bold are VP costs, which is only relevant when using the random scenario generator. Once in the game, they are worth as normal for casualty and exit VP counts (squad 2 VP, team 1 VP, leader 1 + command VP).

No, he could not have chosen to place them in N6, since the Hidden Unit action requires the player to put the unit in a hex within his own setup area with at least 1 cover.

6. Units activated for Op Fire only get one shot per hex entered by moving enemy unit. Not everyone activated HAS to fire though, so you can choose to fire with only some of the units activated for Op Fire (to avoid Hindrance penalties, for example, or possibilities of Jamming your MGs...), but always only 1 shot per hex entered by the enemy unit.

7. Yes, a Hero can activate units in his own hex. However, only the Hero himself can be activated for more than 1 Order per turn, the other units can only be activated once, as normal.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great, thanks again!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ok finished the sample. Final questions:

1. Can wire be removed from the board?

2. "Doubles" refers to getting a roll with 2 of the same number?

3. The sniper hit fairly often in the sample play, even though the sniper hits on a semi random hex... Is this common? Is it because the sniper hexes tend to be around where objectives seem to be on most maps?

4. Can you walk through smoke?

Thanks... I think I'm ready to teach my wife now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
shadow9d9 wrote:
1. Can wire be removed from the board?

Yes, by Random Event (E70. Sappers)

shadow9d9 wrote:
2. "Doubles" refers to getting a roll with 2 of the same number?

Yes.

shadow9d9 wrote:
3. The sniper hit fairly often in the sample play, even though the sniper hits on a semi random hex... Is this common? Is it because the sniper hexes tend to be around where objectives seem to be on most maps?

The Random Hexes cover the whole map. With 150 hexes on the map, the 72 cards just about cover every other hex. Axis cards alternate on the odds while the Allied decks alternate on the evens. By that I mean, the Axis random hexes are A3, A5, A7, .... O5, O7, O9 while the Allied hexes are A2, A4, A6,...O4, O6, O8. So it was just a coincidence (or illustrative example) that the example of play had snipers around the objective hexes.

shadow9d9 wrote:
4. Can you walk through smoke?

Sure can. (For questions like this - look in the rules for any specific prohibition. As there is nothing under smoke to indicate it has any impact on movement - it doesn't. As the red box on Page 3 states - Do not infer or imagine more to a rule than is stated.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alpha Mastrano
Australia
Heidelberg
Victoria, Australia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wire (or any other Fortification) can also be removed using the Demolitions Action (playable when your opponent discards).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RPardoe wrote:


shadow9d9 wrote:
4. Can you walk through smoke?

Sure can. (For questions like this - look in the rules for any specific prohibition. As there is nothing under smoke to indicate it has any impact on movement - it doesn't. As the red box on Page 3 states - Do not infer or imagine more to a rule than is stated.


The reason I asked is because, unless I am wrong, in the sample play, it would have made more sense to walk through to the smoke and then past it, so that the opp fire against him would have been harder to hit him... But that was right as the sample ended, so it didn't go into detail as to why he made that choice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
The OpFire did go through the smoke reducing the fire attack from 11FP to 8 FP so it was just as effective in G8 as it would have been in G9.

Now I haven't set up or played the example - but perhaps there are other possible shots that are hindered by having the smoke in G8 (the crossroads) instead of G9 (down between the two rows of woods).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RPardoe wrote:
The OpFire did go through the smoke reducing the fire attack from 11FP to 8 FP so it was just as effective in G8 as it would have been in G9.

Now I haven't set up or played the example - but perhaps there are other possible shots that are hindered by having the smoke in G8 (the crossroads) instead of G9 (down between the two rows of woods).


I was referring to his move after that op fire.. he moves to the side of the smoke.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
The move from the open road in G9 to the woods in F8?

The line of sight (therefore the shot) from G4 to F8 doesn't touch either G8 or G9. Therefore, smoke in either hex would have no effect on the OpFire shot at F8 in either location. Remember, when making a shot, you draw a line of sight from hex center to hex center and then see what obstacles or hindrances are along that line.

The LOS from G4 to F8 traverses G5-G6-F6-F7. Smoke in either G8 or G9 doesn't hinder the shot at all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
UA Darth
United States
Boca Raton
FL
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
RPardoe wrote:
The move from the open road in G9 to the woods in F8?

The line of sight (therefore the shot) from G4 to F8 doesn't touch either G8 or G9. Therefore, smoke in either hex would have no effect on the OpFire shot at F8 in either location. Remember, when making a shot, you draw a line of sight from hex center to hex center and then see what obstacles or hindrances are along that line.

The LOS from G4 to F8 traverses G5-G6-F6-F7. Smoke in either G8 or G9 doesn't hinder the shot at all.


I'd have to set up the map etc to figure out all of the locations.. but moving to F8 would sidestep the smoke. My thing was that if they wanted to approach objective 5, it would have made more sense to walk directly into the smoke so that an opp fire would have less of a chance of success.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Pardoe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Perhaps...but remember smoke has a tendency to disappear. Draw a breeze event, smoke is gone. A Time! trigger removes 1 smoke marker from the map. At that point, I would much rather be in the woods than on the road in the open.

But that said and done...this is just one of the fun parts of the game....balancing the various options in front of you and how you would like to use them now and how they might benefit you in the future.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.