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Subject: In-Demand Math Trade rss

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Jack K
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Hi all,

I'm just getting this out there on the radar.

Starting on the 15th, I have scheduled an "In-Demand Math Trade". This is intended solely for games which have a number of users wanting that is greater than or equal to the number of users trading at the time it is listed. I know that this is going to reduce the number of participants, but my hope is that this will increase the quality of items offered and perhaps encourage people to dig deeper into their collection for the chance to get something they really want.

The OLWLG will be available for this event.

For full date information please see the notification in the math trade announcements thread.

I will be creating a discussion thread for the event next weekend, so please hold any questions until then, or send them directly to me.
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Brent Gallmann
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Jack:

I think you found your calling. Thanks for hosting another Math trade.

Brent
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VETRHUS of Rogaland
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Jack:

Excellent.

Spoiler (click to reveal)

I support the GG only as a sweetener, and no non-game items idea... if my memory is unhazing... and those were ideas which were actually tossed around.


This ought to be a timely and cool one... carve out the space in the forum so that no-one hijacks the time frame (Jeffy Jeff is on board right?).

--C
 
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Jack K
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diehard4life wrote:
This ought to be a timely and cool one... carve out the space in the forum so that no-one hijacks the time frame (Jeffy Jeff is on board right?).


Yes. Jeff was kind enough to agree to support this effort. We chose dates that were mutually acceptable and didn't step on the toes of any existing math trade that had already been announced.
 
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anglotiger wrote:
diehard4life wrote:
This ought to be a timely and cool one... carve out the space in the forum so that no-one hijacks the time frame (Jeffy Jeff is on board right?).


Yes. Jeff was kind enough to agree to support this effort. We chose dates that were mutually acceptable and didn't step on the toes of any existing math trade that had already been announced.


I was toying with an "Ides of March" trade. But take the ball and run, Jack! I'll try to take part.
 
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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anglotiger wrote:
This is intended solely for games which have a number of users wanting that is greater than or equal to the number of users trading at the time it is listed.


Is there any easy way to look up the wanted/trading numbers for a list of games?
 
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Matt Buckingham
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What if only 3 people want the game (and only 2 have it for trade)? Does this still qualify with the low number of "want"s??

(It fits the letter of the law (more "want"s than "for trade"s, but hardly seems to meet the intent of "in-demand").
 
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Davido
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Go to a game's page and in the middle you'll see a box of "statistics". For say, Aladdin's Dragons you'll find 134 users want this, but only 42 are on record as trading it. So this game would be in.


Morganza wrote:
anglotiger wrote:
This is intended solely for games which have a number of users wanting that is greater than or equal to the number of users trading at the time it is listed.


Is there any easy way to look up the wanted/trading numbers for a list of games?
 
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Joe Wyka
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davido wrote:
Go to a game's page and in the middle you'll see a box of "statistics". For say, Aladdin's Dragons you'll find 134 users want this, but only 42 are on record as trading it. So this game would be in.


Morganza wrote:
anglotiger wrote:
This is intended solely for games which have a number of users wanting that is greater than or equal to the number of users trading at the time it is listed.


Is there any easy way to look up the wanted/trading numbers for a list of games?


I think that's what she wants to avoid. She's asking if she could see those stats for all of her games in a list. I don't know of a way myself.
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Jack K
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mbuckingham wrote:
What if only 3 people want the game (and only 2 have it for trade)? Does this still qualify with the low number of "want"s??

(It fits the letter of the law (more "want"s than "for trade"s, but hardly seems to meet the intent of "in-demand").


That's a fair question Matt. I did consider such a situation but I want to keep the rules on this pretty clear and to avoid drawing arbitrary cutoffs for how many people are after something. So the answer is yes, it does qualify.

My feeling is that these situations will be infrequent - not frequent enough to worry about complicating what I hope are some nice, simple rules. And in those cases where it does happen, the item's probably not going to trade anyway (and if it does, then both of the people involved will be happy).

===

Although I have since been told that this isn't an original idea, the whole idea for me was inspired by reading the threads after recent events. Some people hate gift certificate entries, others hate GG entries, some hate DVDs, comics or video games, and some hate all those cheap games that you get from Tanga or store clearances. Many people view these as noise and would like the things they dislike banned from math trades.

Now I've always thought that while these are "noise" to many people, they should still be allowed due to the fact that some people still manage to trade these items in math trades (I've actually traded a few Tanga games and a video game controller in recent events, as well as some cool OOP stuff), meaning that others want them. That being said, it made me wonder what it would be like if we had an event where all of those things were relegated to sweeteners. An event where people could pick up games that were otherwise hard to trade for due to their popularity, scarcity, relative value or whatever and not have to sift through so much stuff that they considered "garbage". I know of at least one instance where a person with a cool game that I wanted listed it in a math trade and then didn't submit a want list for any of their entries because they couldn't be bothered to sift through page after page of things they thought to be worthless. And so this idea came into being.

I talked this through with JeffyJeff and a couple of other friends here, getting a positive response, and having some experience now running smaller events (and Jeff's offer to make the OLWLG available), decided to give it a go. Hopefully this turns out as I intended and we don't just get a list of 100 copies of China - yes that DOES qualify at the present time...
 
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Brent Gallmann
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Jack:

I like this idea a lot. The way it was done in the past was thru the use of a "request geek list". Your idea is original so I'll be curious to see how it pans out.

Just as an added idea, since one man's junk is another man's gold, maybe you have different posting periods for different degrees of wants. Meaning, for the first few days, only high demand items can be posted (you set the tolerance), then another period for medium demand items, and then finally a period where people can post trash. That way all the "best" items are at the front of the geek-list.

Just a thought,

Brent
 
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Jack K
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D Erasmus wrote:
I like this idea a lot. The way it was done in the past was thru the use of a "request geek list". Your idea is original so I'll be curious to see how it pans out.


Yes a request list entry is really just something that one user wants.

For instance, I might want another copy of "Gene Pool" (and I do - hint, hint). If I put it on the request list, all that says is that I want a copy and it's really no different to someone who lists "Relationship Tightrope", which Tanga effectively gives away for free these days. That's where I think this is superior to the request list - this idea lets something like "Gene Pool" (39:4) through and filters out things like "Relationship Tightrope" (23:115).

Quote:
Just as an added idea, since one man's junk is another man's gold, maybe you have different posting periods for different degrees of wants. Meaning, for the first few days, only high demand items can be posted (you set the tolerance), then another period for medium demand items, and then finally a period where people can post trash. That way all the "best" items are at the front of the geek-list.


Interesting idea Brent. It has some appeal, but I'm going to leave it simple for this one. The one issue that I see with that approach is if someone comes in after the cutoff for "high" or "medium" demand items, but wants to add something in one of those categories. Then what?

Oh well - another problem for another time.
 
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Kenneth Sheffield
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How about instead of a "Request List" we have an "Eligible List", sorted alphabetically.

If a person is interested in a game they could add it AND when a person lists a game on the main list they could add it here (if needed).

When you get ready to list your games, you could check the "Eligible List" and save looking up any game already listed there.

I see no reason we couldn't start the EL today.

What do folks think?



 
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Jack K
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Hmmmm... I really didn't intend this to turn into a discussion thread. I wasn't even planning on creating a discussion list until next weekend (see above). I suppose that I should feel good that some of you are so enthusiastic about the event that you want to get an early start.

Although I have been answering questions/suggestions today, I really don't have so much time to do so right now, so please forgive me if you have a question or idea and I don't respond for a day or two...

Ken - let's leave the "Eligible List" idea for next time. I'm really trying to keep this simple. For myself especially...
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Jason Cheng
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Granted I only looked at Hollywood Blockbuster, but I suspect a lot of the Tanga stuff will still qualify under your terms wouldn't they?
 
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Matt Buckingham
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Hollywood Blockbuster,
Ra,
Hansa,
Ticket To Ride (whole family),
BattleLore,
Tide of Iron,
In the Year of the Dragon,
Utopia,
etc,
etc,
etc,...

MANY other great games sold by Tanga would (and should) qualify...
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Rik Van Horn
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Personally, I still firmly believe that limiting the entries will never get someone to list their grail game.
While the concept, by it's very limitations will raise the overall quality, it won't raise the number of great items.
Carl's epic math trade should now be the yardstick by which we measure great math trades I believe. That had TONS of excellent games, along with all the items people don't like.
But you know what? It smashed the entries and percentage of trades of any math trade that came before or after it.
All the cutesy themed ones dropped back to the standard 30-35% range.
Carl's rang in at an amazing 43% I believe. That's a HUGE difference especially with 2,000 items.
But I've addressed this before and folks are free to run trades as they wish. But I'm always free to state my opinion as well. =)

In any case what about something that as far as I can see won't be allowed, but may draw quality items, the big package of lesser games?
What if you want to list a 6 game package, but none of the games meet the criteria?
Not allowing this would limit even more the number of items listed IMO.
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Jack K
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While I agree with much of what's being said here (if you read what I said above and have read my opinions in earlier discussions, you know that my preference is for unrestricted events), the underlying premise of this event is simple and, I think, clearly stated. It's not my intention to open this up to everything or to make a more complicated set of rules to make it more restrictive. I'm open to minor tweaking of the concept, but I'll leave the major departures to whomever wants to run the next event.

I really don't have the time to debate the merits (or lack thereof) of the idea behind this event, especially after stating that I just wanted to put this on everyone's radar and not use this as a discussion thread, but please feel free to continue, it's interesting reading and you'll give people ideas for the next time.
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David Molnar
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anglotiger wrote:

For instance, I might want another copy of "Gene Pool" (and I do - hint, hint).


Jack, I'll put mine in.
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Carl Anderson
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Rokkr wrote:
Carl's epic math trade should now be the yardstick by which we measure great math trades I believe.


Thanks for the kind words. While I'm confident that the no-restriction trade formula works best, I think the success of the Cabin Fever math trade was simply due to it being at the right place at the right time. I just got lucky.

And Jack--I can't wait to participate in this trade! It's one of my favorite "restricted" trade ideas in a long time. I think it'll be a blast.
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james napoli
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i love math trades and am not one to be prejudice against different types.

I will however say, this style of restriction seems to make the most sense to me. While the mega trades are exciting to be part of, even with the awesome online want list tool it can be quite a task to scroll through litereally thousands of entries to create a want list.

This should end up being a swell trade! :-)
 
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Ed Sherman
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As I've said before, more Math Trades are always better.

I'll be participating in this one.
 
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Bill J
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Excellent idea - sounds like an application of the 'less is more' concept. I have some in-demand items that I'll toss into the mix.
 
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Chris
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I'm game for this one I have a in demand game or two. May put up my Space Marine set in this one.
 
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Jon Grantham
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So if I understand this correctly, the highest-rated game not eligible for this trade would be Carcassonne (#52). Hmm. Seems like a good opportunity to try to trade games that I got because they were rated highly on BGG, but ended up unenthusiastic about.
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