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Subject: Terrain Question -- So there's a cow in the woods... rss

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Kurt R
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and my friend in the Infantry picks up a rifle and fires at -1 die. I'm in a tank and I fire at -2 dice. So the trees vary their protection for the cow depending on who's firing.

I did not see this issue covered in this forum. My apologies if it already has.
 
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Rob D
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My guess is that this is to simulate the better mobility, and ability to react quickly to a situation that an infantry unit would have. I guess if an infantry spots a guy in a forest he can pull off a quicker shot than a tank.
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brian
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Its an abstraction of the nature of the warfare. Infantry have better mobility, better reaction, like Rob pointed out. While they are not on the terrain itself, the goal is to eliminate the enemy or make it retreat and possibly take ground. The Infantry are better suited to fight in wooded terrain than tanks. Thus the difference in modifiers.

Tanks are better suited for open field fighting and their fire/range refelcts that. Infantry are better at mopping up in close assault and their stats reflect that as well.
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Seth Owen
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Not to mention that tankers often have trouble spotting targets while buttoned up. Still, it's a very general and abstract game and it's not a good idea to get too worked up over specific cases. The idea is that, in general, tanks are less effective in woods and towns than infantry.
If you want to get into more detail you need to play Tide of Iron, PanzerGrenadier or even ASL instead.
 
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Kurt R
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Thanks for the replies... Yes, I get that this is a high-level game and I have played ASL (though I'm done with that level of rulebook). I thought that rule was a mistake, and that terrain modifiers were describing what happens when you fire UPON that unit, e.g., a tank gets -2 dice rolled against it when in a forest. Seems to me that the tank would create a lot of natural shrapnel in the forest so it wouldn't be reduced blah blah blah.

OK, that's how the designers made it. I accept it. It seems counterintuitive to me, but whatever. I'm really enjoying the game (only played 5 times so far) and may be back with more questions.

Happy battling, everyone.
 
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brian
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enzo622 wrote:
Seems to me that the tank would create a lot of natural shrapnel in the forest so it wouldn't be reduced blah blah blah.

Also remember that the number of dice you toss is only one thing that increases your probability of hits. The target (and which face of the die cause a hit) is the other half of that equation.

So while a Tank may only fire 1 die into a forest from up to 3 hexes away, it is only going to do damage to a tank 1/3 of the time (since wooden shrapnel will have little effect on armor). But if that same tank is firing at infantry, he still has a 50%-50% chance of a hit. So the shrapnel is still taken into account on an abstract level.

The Infantry is still at 1 die if he is two hexes away. He only gets an "extra" die over the armor if he is adjacent to the enemy in the woods. If he does not eliminate the enemy or cause him to retreat, he can now suffer 3 dice coming back at him in a future turn (assuming the other player has the correct card to order and the current Infantry is not protected by terrain).

So the price that the Infantry has to pay to get that better shot is more costly than what the tank has to pay to stay out of harm's way. So froma practical stand point, the rules do work out. Tanks (if artillery are not available) should soften the target up at a distance and Infantry should mop up in close Assault when they have the opportunity to eliminate the target. This cooperative nature of the units is one of the key aspects of this game.
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Andy Howell
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The abstraction, to me, is that you're fighting IN the woods, since that's essentially the contested hex. Not that your dudes are shooting from a field at his dudes in the woods. Your dudes are trying to move into the woods and clear his dudes out. That's how it makes sense for me.
 
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Kurt R
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AndyHowell wrote:
The abstraction, to me, is that you're fighting IN the woods, since that's essentially the contested hex. Not that your dudes are shooting from a field at his dudes in the woods. Your dudes are trying to move into the woods and clear his dudes out. That's how it makes sense for me.


Now that makes sense to me as to what the designers had in mind. Though that makes more sense in a Close Assault, not from 3 hexes away... but that seems to be what they were going for.

I guess for me, I would've designed it differently, making the emphasis on the terrain not the unit firing, but hey, it's a high-level game.

Thanks to all of you. I appreciate the comments.
 
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Confusion Under Fire
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enzo622 wrote:
and my friend in the Infantry picks up a rifle and fires at -1 die. I'm in a tank and I fire at -2 dice. So the trees vary their protection for the cow depending on who's firing.

I did not see this issue covered in this forum. My apologies if it already has.


Actually I think this brings up a very good question. I often wonder if we make "excuses" for situations that occur in Memoir. Are we guilty of trying to explain away unrealistic events caused by a rules system that was never meant to be hard core wargaming.

Regardless of this I have started to enjoy playing Memoir and can see this hitting the table quite regularly.

Edited for a clearer point
 
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