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Valley Games, Inc.» Forums » General

Subject: I Love Valley Games! rss

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Andrew Faehnle
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Valley Games:

I just wanted to say "thank you" for taking on the (apparently) thankless task of trying to publish high-quality boardgames. I bought Hannibal on a whim (the colorful box art, actually spurred my interest, which was the first time I'd even bought a game because of the box), and I've been quite impressed not only by the game itself, but also your publication of it.

Thanks for taking it upon yourself to try to make a profit of publishing out of print games. (Granted, your decisions to devalue my copy of AH's Titan and my German copy of Die Macher weren't my favorite, but, eh, win some, lose some...) Not to mention your work to develop new board games as well has been appreciated. (I look forward to getting Container on the table.)

I'm also writing the post because I have seen a lot of Valley Games-bashing posts lately, and I wanted to let you know that there are people out there who assume that you're working your hardest and doing your best to deliver on your promises. I think that the internet makes it easier for people to feel justified in being more demanding (because of a combination of increased access to information and the ability to get nearly anything one wants, whenever one wants), though I'm not saying that there aren't reasonable criticisms to be made. Iam saying that I haven't seen many of those criticisms being made reasonably.

So: thanks for your hard work. If the mutterings about non-response to email inquiries are true, I hope that whatever is causing the delay or problems is resolved quickly, and in a way that allows you to keep publishing.

I'll keep buying the games you produce that interest me, because that's what we're all supposed to be about here, right?

Thanks!

PS- About the devaluing of my copies of Titan and Die Macher: I think that copies of each of the new versions, plus a copy of Republic of Rome would just about make up for the lost value. :)
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Daniel Corban
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Unfortunately, these guys are so asleep behind the wheel, I doubt they will see your message. Maybe after they go bankrupt and have more free time, they will stumble across your platitudes.
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Steve Bachman
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MrSkeletor wrote:
Last time I checked, money was the best thanks there was.

Far from it, as I'm sure the many volunteers at non-profits, blood donors, organ donors, and social workers of all sorts (as well as the multitude of others whose monetary compensation is far below their contributions to a better world) will tell you.

There is a reason the saying goes "Money is the root of all evil."
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MrSkeletor wrote:
p0pcult wrote:
Valley Games:

I just wanted to say "thank you" for taking on the (apparently) thankless task of trying to publish high-quality boardgames.


Last time I checked, money was the best thanks there was.



He did buy their games (presumably by giving them money) and plans to buy more...

 
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Eric
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Ward wrote:
MrSkeletor wrote:
Last time I checked, money was the best thanks there was.

Far from it, as I'm sure the many volunteers at non-profits, blood donors, organ donors, and social workers of all sorts (as well as the multitude of others whose monetary compensation is far below their contributions to a better world) will tell you.

There is a reason the saying goes "Money is the root of all evil."


Actually, it's "The love of money is the root of all evil."
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Ed Holzman
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Um, Drew? Most people are not bashing Valley Games because they are slow to deliver or have poor quality product. Missed deadlines are the norm in this hobby and Valley Games product is extremely high quality. However, when your online store and pre-order system goes dormant for 6 months and there is no attempt to update your website, it causes people to wonder just what is going on.

Poor communications lead to speculation and frustration. And THAT is something that only Valley Games can fix. I mean, yeah, you can assume that they are "working their hardest and doing their best to deliver on their promises", but most people would like to at least see them post a message to such effect with updates on a regular (weekly?) basis, even if it is just to say "sorry guys, no progress this week".

I am hoping that eventually they come back online and explain why the hiatus took place and generate gobs and gobs of sales. I would love for them to succeed. I also hope that they have not petered away the goodwill that they have developed republishing some long OOP games with high demand by giving us the silent treatment for so long. Only time will tell.

PS - Don't give my any BS story about "so-and-so from Valley Games posted to a thread on BGG". If they have time to post here, then they have time to update their website.
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Ron Emch
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Has anyone received the plastic generals for Hannibal pre orders yet?
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Andrew Faehnle
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emcher wrote:
Has anyone received the plastic generals for Hannibal pre orders yet?


No, but if people keep beating this dead horse, the plastic generals will magically appear. By the way: I have some magic beans for trade. Are you interested?
 
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My best guess is that these guys all have day jobs, and this is something they do in their "spare" time.

As you can problably imagine, I'm sure they bit off a bit more than they can chew (and chew and chew...) There's a lot that goes into publishing a game. There's much more that goes into running a business and keeping customers happy.

I'm sure they mean well, and the products have been getting published. And I'm sure they kept up with email for the first few days After that, I'm sure it's all been down hill. And once you get behind, catching up is *very* difficult.

Even more difficult than catching up is always having to say you're sorry.

I think the best thing we can do, if we want the games they are publishing, is give them some space. If lots of people are emailing them frequently, all we're doing is making them further behind and giving them more reasons to apologize.

Perhaps if they spent less time answering (or at least reading) emails, they might have more time to update their site with current information. Perhaps not.

But I feel that if we spend all of our time criticizing and complaining, nothing will change for the better. If you want their games, and want them to succeed, please encourage them and ask yourself what you can do to help.

If you want them to fail, email them every day asking for your plastic generals, and post how much Valley Games sucks.

Tom
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Andrew Faehnle
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BoardsAndBits wrote:
My best guess is that these guys all have day jobs, and this is something they do in their "spare" time.

As you can problably imagine, I'm sure they bit off a bit more than they can chew (and chew and chew...) There's a lot that goes into publishing a game. There's much more that goes into running a business and keeping customers happy.

I'm sure they mean well, and the products have been getting published. And I'm sure they kept up with email for the first few days ;) After that, I'm sure it's all been down hill. And once you get behind, catching up is *very* difficult.

Even more difficult than catching up is always having to say you're sorry.

I think the best thing we can do, if we want the games they are publishing, is give them some space. If lots of people are emailing them frequently, all we're doing is making them further behind and giving them more reasons to apologize.

Perhaps if they spent less time answering (or at least reading) emails, they might have more time to update their site with current information. Perhaps not.

But I feel that if we spend all of our time criticizing and complaining, nothing will change for the better. If you want their games, and want them to succeed, please encourage them and ask yourself what you can do to help.

If you want them to fail, email them every day asking for your plastic generals, and post how much Valley Games sucks.

Tom
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Tom,

Thanks for so eloquently presenting the argument I failed (or was unable) to make in my original post. I agree with your sentiments exactly.
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Andrew Moore
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Aljovin wrote:
Ward wrote:
MrSkeletor wrote:
Last time I checked, money was the best thanks there was.

Far from it, as I'm sure the many volunteers at non-profits, blood donors, organ donors, and social workers of all sorts (as well as the multitude of others whose monetary compensation is far below their contributions to a better world) will tell you.

There is a reason the saying goes "Money is the root of all evil."


Actually, it's "The love of money is the root of all evil."


Actually it's:

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Greig
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If I hadn't been involved in the preorder process (ie pay for game on March 9, 2007, receive game nine months later on December 9, 2007 and now 365 days later I haven't received my preorder bonus) I would be lauding them for their efforts, amazing final product and desire to reprint classics.

However, I was involved in it and a critic of missed timelines and a complete lack of communication. When I finally received the game I didn't want to play it anymore. Finally I traded it for Big City, a game I was really looking forward to purchasing from Valley Games. Now I don't have to worry about that anymore.

Once they prove that they can deliver on their own expectations, communicate in a consistent manner, whether it's by email, on their own website or here, and continue to create great games I will jump back on the bandwagon. For now I don't really care what direction they're going.

I am glad, Drew, that you're happy with your game.
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Andrew Moore
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I have a pre-order in for Big City as well. I'm leaving my pre-order in place in the hopes that things smooth out. I can't speak for how long it takes a company to work the kinks out of it processes.
 
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Antonio Chavez
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Belash wrote:
For now I don't really care what direction they're going.


And yet here you are, dragging your dead horse and your stick into a thread that was clearly labeled as support for Valley Games.

Way to "not care", man.

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Paul Sauberer
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The definitive statement from an outsider on Valley Games:

Nobody in this thread has any real idea of what is going on with Valley Games.

Saying "They are great and no one should say anything bad about them because they are doing great things for the hobby" is hogwash because you don't know what their status is curently.

Saying, "They are awful because they haven't issued the preorder bonuses and must be belly up" is also hogwash because you don't know what their status is currently.

What we know is

1. They have not issued preorder bonuses. According to them, this is because of production quality issues.
2. They recently had problems due to shipments going missing, according to them. Eventually those items got into customer hands (at least I think so).
3. They have not updated their website for about 6 months.
4. They have not had an operational web store for about that same time frame.
5. Kevin has often promised dates (usually a nebulous "within a couple of weeks" or "days") when the web site and storee would be back up and every one of them has been missed.
6. They have not announced the winner of their "free games for a year" contest. In response to a query here Kevin said a winner has been chosen, but they are not going to announce it until the web site is back up and functioning. This, however, leads back to issues 3 and 5 above.

What can we draw form this? Well, first, Tom's supposition that they are so busy answering e-mails that they can't get anything else done doesn't pan out. This is because of the number of long unanswered e-mails reported here on BGG.

Also, the "they are only working at this part time" doesn't pan out as well. According to them, one of the principals was working full time on VG matters.

Clearly, there is something going on at VG that leads to questions. the questions are legitimate. Pillorying someone for asking them and saying that there are no problems is not realistic. Trying to answer them negatively at this point, though, is pure speculation. Sure, a case can be made that Valley Games is on the way out. It would only be based on circumstantial evidence, however, and would be premature.

Arguing and yelling about one position or the other is not going to change things one bit. Events are just going to have to play out and we'll see in the end whether Valley Games is around in a year or not. No one can say for certain one way or the other at this point.

In the end Valley Games is the only entity that can clear this up. Either they will issue more games and get the preorder bonuses out or they won't. Until they either produce or fold the constant bickering about it here is just useless noise.
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Kevin Bourrillion
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Aljovin wrote:
Ward wrote:
There is a reason the saying goes "Money is the root of all evil."


Actually, it's "The love of money is the root of all evil."


Actually, no. That's only the biblical quote, which is not very popular at all. The more popular saying by far is "Money is the root of all evil."
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kevinb9n wrote:
Aljovin wrote:
Ward wrote:
There is a reason the saying goes "Money is the root of all evil."


Actually, it's "The love of money is the root of all evil."


Actually, no. That's only the biblical quote, which is not very popular at all. The more popular saying by far is "Money is the root of all evil."


LOL.

A. The "Money is the root of all evil" is directly based on the Biblical text. The fact that it is commonly misquoted does not legitimize it, regardless of popularity.

B. Even if what you say were true and there were an original source for "Money is the root of all evil" that was NOT the Bible (or some other religious text), which would you rely as an accurate authority regarding the roots of evil? The Bible or some guy?
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out4blood wrote:
B. Even if what you say were true and there were an original source for "Money is the root of all evil" that was NOT the Bible (or some other religious text), which would you rely as an accurate authority regarding the roots of evil? The Bible or some guy?


Well, considering the fact that the bible was written (and translated and transcribed) by lots of different guys (and maybe even gals) long long ago, I don't see one or the other as being more accurate per se.
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grimstuff wrote:
I'd like to get a microbadge made that signifies I have been made one of Valley Games' bitches. All you gotta do to be one of us is give them your credit card number with the vague hope of seeing an old game published and some plastic paraphernalia in your mailbox a year after it is--if ever-- published.

Then you gotta get on BGG and make rote responses like "I'm sure the goods will be here soon," "any day now," and "Kevin said that once they survive everyone's house foreclosures, get new jobs, and raise their kids, the website will open back up."

but seriously, I don't even care much anymore. I'm a little bitch, so I'll just continue to give them my credit card info for whatever and if I see anything come of it I'll sing their praises from the rooftops.


Ah the internet: isn't it glorious what can happen when you bring together a bunch of people who might have been slightly wronged, but with the added protection of relative anonymity and physical separation from those they complain about? It's almost as if you'd actually been raped by Valley Games, David.
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Mr.Baggins wrote:
Belash wrote:
For now I don't really care what direction they're going.


And yet here you are, dragging your dead horse and your stick into a thread that was clearly labeled as support for Valley Games.

Way to "not care", man.



Get the whole quote:

Belash wrote:
Once they prove that they can deliver on their own expectations, communicate in a consistent manner, whether it's by email, on their own website or here, and continue to create great games I will jump back on the bandwagon. For now I don't really care what direction they're going.


My horse is not dead. I do not have my bonus generals, nor does anyone else. I don't see you trolling through the "where the hell are my generals" threads chastizing people for showing support for Valley Games so don't take away my right to express my displeasure with them. There has to be a full view.

As for the quote. I guess I do care. I want them to do well, which is why I supported them and preordered Hannibal. However, they have left me wanting more. I expect more than just a great final product for my money.
 
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Money is the Root of all Wealth.

I have no problem with Valley Games, if only for the fact I was able to get a copy of Die Macher at a price I could afford.
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Kevin Iacoucci
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Ward wrote:


There is a reason the saying goes "Money is the root of all evil."


It's actually “For the love of money is the root of all evil.” Timothy, 6:10
 
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grimstuff wrote:

Whoa, there. Nothing like revealing your sensitivity by kicking it up a notch....


If I recall correctly, you were the one who first claimed that Valley Games made you their bitch.

[...]

Yep, right there (you even quote it yourself in your most recent post):

grimstuff wrote:
I'd like to get a microbadge made that signifies I have been made one of Valley Games' bitches.


How do you think one gets made a bitch? Maybe I'm kinda naive, but I'll assume that it doesn't involve buying flowers and chocolates for your loved one. Probably also doesn't involve not getting your toy soldiers.
 
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Ward wrote:
MrSkeletor wrote:
Last time I checked, money was the best thanks there was.

Far from it, as I'm sure the many volunteers at non-profits, blood donors, organ donors, and social workers of all sorts (as well as the multitude of others whose monetary compensation is far below their contributions to a better world) will tell you.

There is a reason the saying goes "Money is the root of all evil."


This is one of those oft-misrepeated quotes.

The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Money itself is just money.
 
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Steve Bachman
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leroy43 wrote:
Ward wrote:
MrSkeletor wrote:
Last time I checked, money was the best thanks there was.

Far from it, as I'm sure the many volunteers at non-profits, blood donors, organ donors, and social workers of all sorts (as well as the multitude of others whose monetary compensation is far below their contributions to a better world) will tell you.

There is a reason the saying goes "Money is the root of all evil."


This is one of those oft-misrepeated quotes.

The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Money itself is just money.

Well, if you are going to get all technical about it, I'd say it is an oft-repeated misquote. Nonetheless, the point is still the same and stating that "money was the best thanks there was" is pretty much professing a love, and overvaluation, of money. It also illustrates why too few stand up and give non-monetary appreciation - too many feel that spending their money is thanks enough.shake
 
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