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Subject: Declaring D&R rss

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Devon Harmon
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Looking over the rules for D&R, I'm trying to figure out why anyone would declare D&R as part of a loot action (8.38). The result of doing so is that pirate may only move or recover D&R while in port. You don't even get the boost to Crew Loyalty until after you have performed the D&R recovery action in port.

It seems much more efficient to declare D&R as part of an in-port activities action.
 
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Peter Hawthorne
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Seems like a pirate facing a particularly mutinous crew would have a reason. Either being at 0 loyalty due to a poor treasure roll and incurring automatic mutinies or simply fearing an AP "Mutiny Conspiracy" card while en route to port, for example. I assume these don't seem like fairly frequent occurrences, but the option is there just in case.

Edit: I see I missed the part about not getting the loyalty bonus until the recovery action. In that case I don't see a good reason either.
 
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Mark Jimenez
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I would go with that too, except, as Devon mentions, there's no increase in Loyalty for Vountary D&R post loot (per the Crew Loyalty Table).
 
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Neil Randall
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Looking into this. It does seem funny.
 
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Devon Harmon
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mgamer72 wrote:
I would go with that too, except, as Devon mentions, there's no increase in Loyalty for Vountary D&R post loot (per the Crew Loyalty Table).


I noticed this and was going to mention it in my post, but I figured that since the +1 Crew loyalty is not awarded until after the D&R recovery action being performed in a port, it was the giving up of the action that gets you the +1 Crew Loyalty, not the declaring of D&R.

But, if one declares D&R as part of a loot action, then goes to a pirate port, it would only take 1 action to remove the D&R, since it was voluntarily declared, and you would get a +3 boost to Crew Loyalty instead of just +1. Perhaps this is the only (albeit obscure) use of declaring D&R as part of a loot action.
 
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Allen Doum
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Devon Harmon wrote:
Looking over the rules for D&R, I'm trying to figure out why anyone would declare D&R as part of a loot action (8.38). The result of doing so is that pirate may only move or recover D&R while in port. You don't even get the boost to Crew Loyalty until after you have performed the D&R recovery action in port.

It seems much more efficient to declare D&R as part of an in-port activities action.

The Crew Loyalty table does show and effect on a D&R Recovery. In fact, there are two entrys, one for Pirate Ports and one for non-Pirate ports.

I agree that taking a volutary D&R after looting is dangerous, but then so are repeated Mutinies.
 
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Devon Harmon
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AllenDoum wrote:


I agree that taking a volutary D&R after looting is dangerous, but then so are repeated Mutinies.


But declaring D&R after looting will not help prevent a mutiny, as the +1 to crew loyalty does not happen until after you have sailed to a port and spent an action to recover from D&R.
 
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Ted Groth
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Declaring D&R as part of a loot action does expose you to the hazard of attack by a warship or KC, but it clearly saves you an action in exchange for accepting that risk.

1) Declare D&R as part of a loot action,
2) Move into a port
3) Recover from D&R

That way one action is saved as compared to:

1) Loot action, without declaring D&R
2) Move into a port
3) Declare D&R
4) Recover from D&R

The farther you are from a friendly port when you declare D&R the more risk you are taking on of course! But Declaring D&R as part of a loot action looks like a good option if you can move immediately into a friendly port on your next action, and if there are no warships or KC's already nearby.

Edit: My point was based on the idea that declaring D&R while in port is a separate action than the in-port activities action. I just looked it up and you can declare D&R as part of the in-port activities action, so there really isn't any good reason to declare D&R while at sea!
 
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Devon Harmon
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Tradewinds Ted wrote:
My point is based on the idea that declaring D&R while in port is a separate action than the in-port activities action. If you can declare D&R as part of the in-port activities action then there really isn't any good reason to declare D&R while at sea!


You can declare D&R as part of the in port activities action (9.41).

I can only think of one situation when it would be advangageous to declare D&R as part of a loot action, and it assumes you desperately need to improve your crew loyalty. The first situation would be when you have found a merchant on the last action of your previous turn. If you play 3 actions this turn, the first looting (during which you declare D&R), the second moving to port, and the third removing D&R and getting +1 to loyalty. This allows you to get the loyalty boost before the AP players have a change to replenish their hands and possibly draw Mutiny Conspiracy. Further, my interpretation of the rules is that since declaring D&R as part of a loot action is voluntary, if you then go to a pirate port to remove D&R, it will only take one action, and you will get +3 to your crew loyalty.



 
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David Klempa
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nrandall wrote:
Looking into this. It does seem funny.


I also thought it was funny that the Loyalty now improved on the Recovery rather than the D&R itself. I figured it was the getting drink that made the crew happy or docile, not the subsequent hangover.
 
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Tony M
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Agree with the posts above.

The only reason I see where it would be advantageous is where you do not wish to perform In-Port activities. Then it saves an action.

Loot /w D&R + Move to Port + Recover
Vs
Loot Without D&R + Move + Port Activities /w D&R + Recover

Since selling your booty incurs involuntary D&R (Presumably the crew is off to party with their share of the loot), it will usually mean you want more loyalty but dont have hostages to ransom or ship damage to repair.

Otherwise, just give the crew shore leave while you conduct business in port.

-T
 
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Neil Randall
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Well, one way to look at it is that not every possible action in a game needs to be advantageous to the player performing it. It could simply be something that newcomers would try and then learn that it's not very useful.

But that said, Richard and I are considering what to do about this one.
 
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King of All Simians — Not a Mere Diplomat
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nrandall wrote:
Well, one way to look at it is that not every possible action in a game needs to be advantageous to the player performing it. It could simply be something that newcomers would try and then learn that it's not very useful.

Bwah! Those're some pretty slick justification skills you're rockin' there, son!
 
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David Klempa
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tmarozas wrote:
Since selling your booty incurs involuntary D&R (Presumably the crew is off to party with their share of the loot), it will usually mean you want more loyalty but dont have hostages to ransom or ship damage to repair.


Only in a Pirate Port (Tortuga, etc.).
 
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Neil Randall
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Quote:
Bwah! Those're some pretty slick justification skills you're rockin' there, son!


Believe it or not, not really. This kind of discussion did go on, although not specifically with this rule.
 
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Allen Doum
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You could, of course, intend just to recover D&R in a local, neutral port, then sail, having recovered, to another port to get a better deal on coverting booty.

This would get you added Crew Loyalty during the voyage to the other port.

This is not as effecient as doing it when coverting booty, but it remains an option in a limited circumstance.
 
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Greg White
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nrandall wrote:
Well, one way to look at it is that not every possible action in a game needs to be advantageous to the player performing it. It could simply be something that newcomers would try and then learn that it's not very useful.
ewwwwww. no, no, no! that kind of design decision is just aweful. padding a game with unneccessary filler?gulp

scenario 1: all new to the game. a player tries the filler option, everyone is confused thinking they must've misunderstood the rule. the game slows down. leads to posts on forums like these.

scenario 2: all experienced with the game. the filler option is ignored.

scenario 3: blend of experienced and inexperienced where experienced players a socially well adjusted. the filler option is pointed out as pointless to the inexperienced player.

scenario 4: blend of experienced and inexperienced where experienced players are prats. the inexperienced player takes the filler option and the experienced players lol.

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