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Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization» Forums » Rules

Subject: Corruption mentions on event cards. rss

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Scott Russell
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I am hoping that Filip can be enticed into commenting on this topic. There are a couple threads on the issue, but I didn't see any official statement.

When an event card says produce resources and ignore corruption, does it mean:

All players add blue tokens to their mines equal to the number of yellow tokens on their mines.

Then as their corruption phase comes up on their turn, apply corruption normally

or

Skip one corruption phase on their turn after the event is revealed?

I am strongly of the former camp, but we have a player in a PBeM that is in the latter.

Similarly when the later card says to apply corruption, is there a separate corruption "payment" immediately after the resources are gained?

Thanks!
 
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Curt Carpenter
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The former seems obvious to me. There are no cards that have any "state" associated with them, which is what the latter would require. I don't think you even need an official ruling. The former seems perfectly clear. If in every game you had to say "now" to what is written on the cards, it would be a little ridiculous, but clearly the card means ignore corruption NOW. But if anyone from EAGLE is reading this, it probably would been more clear to simply not mention corruption at all. After all, why would anyone assume you DO need to worry about corruption at all, since the game already tells you when to deal with corruption?
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Eric Brosius
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Normally when you produce, you

(1) produce food,
(2) consume food,
(3) produce rocks,
(4) apply corruption.

The cards that say "ignore corruption" (when resources are produced) or "ignore consumption and corruption" (when food is produced) are just clarifying that you're only doing (1) or (3) (depending on the card.) The other card, "Economic Progress", causes (1), (2), (3) and (4) all to occur in turn.

None of these last till the end of anyone's turn.
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Raymond Glosser
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Eric Brosius wrote:
Normally when you produce, you

(1) produce food,
(2) consume food,
(3) produce rocks,
(4) apply corruption.

The cards that say "ignore corruption" (when resources are produced) or "ignore consumption and corruption" (when food is produced) are just clarifying that you're only doing (1) or (3) (depending on the card.) The other card, "Economic Progress", causes (1), (2), (3) and (4) all to occur in turn.

None of these last till the end of anyone's turn.


I'm now leaning toward the general concensus. My initial confusion is that consumption/corruption are only mentioned in context of the production/maintence phase that occurs at the end of the player's turn. It seems that this is being read into any production step, including Event induced conditions.

I don't have my cards with me at this location, so I'm taking Eric's rendition of the card quotes in absentia. It still seems odd that you would 'ignore corruption' on a resource production event, but 'ignore consumption and corruption' on a food only production event that doesn't deal with corruption. This may simply be an ambiguity of the card text that could be errata'd and/or corrected in future versions.

 
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David desJardins
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qzhdad wrote:
When an event card says produce resources and ignore corruption, does it mean:

All players add blue tokens to their mines equal to the number of yellow tokens on their mines.

Then as their corruption phase comes up on their turn, apply corruption normally

or

Skip one corruption phase on their turn after the event is revealed?


Why are these the only two options? I think it means that player ignores corruption for the rest of the game.
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Eric Brosius
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valkray wrote:
It still seems odd that you would 'ignore corruption' on a resource production event, but 'ignore consumption and corruption' on a food only production event that doesn't deal with corruption.


I actually think it makes sense. Suppose the first section of your blue bank is almost used up, and you get the food only production event. This takes enough blue tokens out (to put on farm cards) that you're now in the "-2" section. One might think corruption now applies, but this wording makes it clear that it does not.
 
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Scott Russell
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DaviddesJ wrote:
qzhdad wrote:
When an event card says produce resources and ignore corruption, does it mean:

All players add blue tokens to their mines equal to the number of yellow tokens on their mines.

Then as their corruption phase comes up on their turn, apply corruption normally

or

Skip one corruption phase on their turn after the event is revealed?


Why are these the only two options? I think it means that player ignores corruption for the rest of the game.


You've had some interesting rules interpretations before, David, but this may be my favorite! laugh

To all that answered thoughtfully, thanks. I agree with what has been said as I think I pointed out in my initial message.

We are having a discussion in a PBeM game and I was hoping for an official answer to definitively back my reading so we could proceed.

And it looks like the other player is going to agree with the rest of us even without an official answer, but it would still be nice to have something to point to.





 
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Scott Russell
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Eric Brosius wrote:
valkray wrote:
It still seems odd that you would 'ignore corruption' on a resource production event, but 'ignore consumption and corruption' on a food only production event that doesn't deal with corruption.


I actually think it makes sense. Suppose the first section of your blue bank is almost used up, and you get the food only production event. This takes enough blue tokens out (to put on farm cards) that you're now in the "-2" section. One might think corruption now applies, but this wording makes it clear that it does not.


I can even see cases in which one would want to pay the food so that the blue tokens could be "recycled" into resources. That may be the reason that the later event does state that hunger and corruption should take effect.
 
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Raymond Glosser
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Eric Brosius wrote:
valkray wrote:
It still seems odd that you would 'ignore corruption' on a resource production event, but 'ignore consumption and corruption' on a food only production event that doesn't deal with corruption.


I actually think it makes sense. Suppose the first section of your blue bank is almost used up, and you get the food only production event. This takes enough blue tokens out (to put on farm cards) that you're now in the "-2" section. One might think corruption now applies, but this wording makes it clear that it does not.


Again, there is still ambiguity. The card refences only the production of food. The rule on corruption states: "Corruption is calculated after production of Resources (which happens after Food production and Consumption)."

If the Resources step doesn't take place, it could be interpreted that the corruption shouldn't.

I'm still leaning toward the group consensus. I just believe the rules or card should be clarified.
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Raymond Glosser
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Just to play Devil's advocate, there is a third option:

All players produce food. The active player is granted a reprieve from Consumption/Corruption during their Prod/Maint end turn phase. Others deal with the extra tokens on their turns normally.

Always ready to muddy the waters...devil
 
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Robert Rossney
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Why are these the only two options? I think it means that player ignores corruption for the rest of the game.


For the rest of the game? What kind of interpretation is that? Ever since someone played that card on me, I always ignore corruption. It bugs my opponents, but it's not my fault that they don't understand how the game works.
 
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Filip Murmak
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Eric's answer was correct.

Event could give you some determined number resources or trigger a part of Production and Maintanance phase the moment the card is played (all events are solved instantly as stated in rules).

Filip
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Scott Russell
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Thanks, Filip!
 
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Raymond Glosser
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Filip,

Another corollary...

By the logic of this thread and Eric's answer, the Action card 'Boutiful Harvest' which reads 'Your civilization produces 3 food' would also immediately force the population food payment and resource corruption reductions.

Is this what you intend, or are 'Production' instances handled differently from each other?
The Action Card section states 'When you gain a Resource this way, you take a blue token from your Blue Bank and place it on the proper Technology card, just as if it were produced by a Mine or a Farm.' It makes no mention of skipping consumption or corruption.

So, either I'm playing those cards incorrectly, also, or consumption/corruption doesn't occur for certain production states.

 
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David desJardins
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valkray wrote:
By the logic of this thread and Eric's answer, the Action card 'Boutiful Harvest' which reads 'Your civilization produces 3 food' would also immediately force the population food payment and resource corruption reductions.


That's certainly not what the "logic of this thread" indicates.

Some cards say "ignore corruption", and in those cases you ignore corruption. Some cards say "apply corruption", and in those cases you apply corruption. Some cards say neither, and in those cases you have to apply your own common sense. If you have any.
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Raymond Glosser
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I really hope you did not intend being rude. I'll assume not and plow on...

I am merely trying to get an authoritative response on a valid question.

It would have been much simpler if it was simply:

Consumption/Corruption only occur during Prod/Maint unless called for on a particular Event/Action card.

None of this applied/ignored/partially-ignored/not-mentioned-so-make-your-best-call state that we have currently. The last two states being the main points of contention. Common Sense works, that is what house rule interpretations are for. This is to make the rulebook/cards clearer and could be applied to future printings so that this mess doesn't occur again.

Applied:
Economic Progress- Each player's mines and farms produce rock and food immediately. Do not ignore consumption and corruption.

Ignored:
Good Harvest- Each player's farms produce food immediately. Ignore consumption and corruption

Partially-ignored:
New Deposits- Each players mines produce rock immediately. Ignore corruption.

Not-mentioned-so-make-your-best-call:
Bountiful Harvest- Your civilization produces 3 food.

In these cases it would have been better served stating 'apply consumption/corruption' to Economic Progress and no extra text to any of the others. (Unless, he intended for consumption to be applied to New Deposits.)


 
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David desJardins
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valkray wrote:
This is to make the rulebook/cards clearer and could be applied to future printings so that this mess doesn't occur again.


I think the cards as printed are all perfectly clear. The goal of eliminating all possible "valid questions" is unachievable; human language is inherently ambiguous, and people can always find things to argue about if they go looking for them.
 
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Raymond Glosser
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We'll just have to be of different minds on this. I do appreciate your replies, though! Hope to get a chance to game with you sometime, as I see you are basically local. Possibly Dundra, Kubla or Pacificon. Though I'm usually only lucky enough to make one or two.
 
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Scott Russell
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The way I rationalize this is some of the cards say produce a certain amount and there is never corruption/consumption.

If your mines and/or farms produce, it specifies whether corruption/corruption occurs.

 
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Scott Russell
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DaviddesJ wrote:

I think the cards as printed are all perfectly clear.


A brief perusal of the rules section forum for this game indicates that others do not share your opinion.
 
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David desJardins
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qzhdad wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:

I think the cards as printed are all perfectly clear.


A brief perusal of the rules section forum for this game indicates that others do not share your opinion.


These particular cards. Not every card in the game (of course).
 
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Curt Carpenter
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I've never understood the attitude that when people are asking rules questions it's because they're either dumb or intentionally trying to stir the pot for argument's sake. I've been accused of this before as well, and I gotta say it comes across as pretty irritating and closed-minded.
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David desJardins
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curtc wrote:
I've never understood the attitude that when people are asking rules questions it's because they're either dumb or intentionally trying to stir the pot for argument's sake.


I don't understand that attitude either. I hope I don't encounter it.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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DaviddesJ wrote:
I don't understand that attitude either. I hope I don't encounter it.

This sure came across that way to me:
DaviddesJ wrote:
...you have to apply your own common sense. If you have any.
 
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David desJardins
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curtc wrote:
This sure came across that way to me:
DaviddesJ wrote:
...you have to apply your own common sense. If you have any.


I intended the Generic you. I didn't mean to refer to any poster in this thread. I'm sorry for not making that clear.
 
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