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Subject: Some Questions I have and mistakes noticed. rss

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Robert Voisin
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Just a few questions I have and mistakes noticed.

Pg 6. C2 It states, “If he plays more than one Event Card in his turn the Player must state which card he is using to determine the number of Actions.” ??
And 17.4 (pg. 18) States “The Event card played for Actions does not have to be the first card played, and the Player does not have to use all (or even any) of its Actions.”
I was under the impression you were able to play ONE Event card using it in one of 3 ways, 1. The Event 2. For its Actions or 3. For the Event and the Actions on the card. So Please explain how to play more than one card besides, 4.55 stating in the rare case…. .??

Pg 10. 8.35 Do you use the same die roll from 8.32 to get Notoriety or do you roll again?

Pg 22. Notoriety Chart Failed Oust Attempt by KC is wrong, isn’t it? Should be 1 point not KC Combat Rating?

Is there any way to add more merchant ships to your area if there are already 5+ on the map someplace else?

Mistakes I noticed to the Charts to help others

Pg 3. KC Counter Example is wrong with the Speed and Combat?

Crew Loyalty Table
-1 Converting to smaller ship
-2 Failed Booty Grab
+1 Converting to a larger ship

Procedure: Pirate Attacks Port
C2 Warships adds its Combat rating (Should not be there)

I Loved the Original Black Beard, but after one play thru with friends or struggle thru, on this new version. I had to add a lot on the Charts that I felt they should of included. And am now in the process of re-designing new ship Cards. The original with each type of ship having it’s own card was nice. To Many times trying to figure out which Pirate has which type of ship with what combat or speed on it. Plus which holds you can store booty in. Also a square for showing upgraded cannons above the combat listing would be nice. (Are any of the ship cards left from the trial game, as .jpg files so we could just print our own cards out?)
Sorry For the long post and pleas let me know on the first few questions. Thanks
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Doug Adams
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RVoisin wrote:
Just a few questions I have and mistakes noticed.

Pg 6. C2 It states, “If he plays more than one Event Card in his turn the Player must state which card he is using to determine the number of Actions.” ??
And 17.4 (pg. 18) States “The Event card played for Actions does not have to be the first card played, and the Player does not have to use all (or even any) of its Actions.”
I was under the impression you were able to play ONE Event card using it in one of 3 ways, 1. The Event 2. For its Actions or 3. For the Event and the Actions on the card. So Please explain how to play more than one card besides, 4.55 stating in the rare case…. .??


I'm getting ready to play tomorrow and have read the rules a couple of times. I only just picked up on this on the second read through today. I guess you can play any number of events on your turn, and if you take actions, only one card can thus be used for that - it doesn't have to be the first card you play.

I've also written all over one of my play aids, and fixed some errors. The things I don't like is a lot of information that should have been on the cards, is stuffed away in the rulebook - especially the timing information. I'm dreading the first game tomorrow with all the "when can I play this card?" questions.
 
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Neil Randall
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I'm checking on the multiple-events cards issue right now. I have a ruling, but I'm checking with Richard to make sure it's correct.

As for the play-aid cards, I fully understand that you'd like something different on them, but we had to decide at one point what goes on them and what you see is what we chose, for better or for worse (I suspect everyone will have different views of what should be on them). Me, I always just use the rules anyway, never the cards.

The problem with trying to summarize procedures on a play-aid card - especially when there are so many procedures - is that there are always more. But an even larger play-aid card would have been slammed as unusable, so we chose what we felt were the procedures that players would want most often.

I'm curious about the timing questions, though - they were never a big deal during playesting. What's the problem?
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Doug Adams
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nrandall wrote:
I'm curious about the timing questions, though - they were never a big deal during playesting. What's the problem?


Neil, hopefully it's no problem. I'm playing for the first time tonight, but I can see my buddies with a hand of cards and no idea when to play them - that information isn't on the cards, it's in section 17 of the rules. Piratical Ambition, Skull & Crossbones, Warship Sighting, etc. I've copied the event card section to pass around during play.
 
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Neil Randall
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Okay, cool. Let me know how it goes, okay? And if timing is an issue.
 
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Paul Szilagyi
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Responses to/further questions arising from, the OP

RVoisin wrote:
Pg 22. Notoriety Chart Failed Oust Attempt by KC is wrong, isn’t it? Should be 1 point not KC Combat Rating?


Maybe it's different if there's only one Pirate In Port (KC Combat rating for 1 on 1) than if there are multiple pirates being ousted (one point each)?


RVoisin wrote:
Pg 3. KC Counter Example is wrong with the Speed and Combat?

How is that wrong?
 
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Robert Voisin
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KC example is wrong by stating the 3 is the Combat # and the speed is 11.
 
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Neil Randall
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Okay, as I thought, this is the answer to the issue of playing multiple cards per player-turn:

A player may play as many cards as he wishes EACH pirate turn (player-turn). But only one of those cards may be used for Actions.

So if you have a hand of four cards, you could play one for Actions and the other three for Events. It's highly unlikely, however, that you'll ever have such a hand, because you'll almost always have 2-3 Anti-Pirate cards (which of course can't be used for Events during the pirate's own turn). This is the way the game was playtested from beginning to end.

I'll be sure to clarify any and all points that could be read otherwise.

Many, many thanks for pointing this out.


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Tom
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nrandall wrote:
Okay, as I thought, this is the answer to the issue of playing multiple cards per player-turn:

A player may play as many cards as he wishes EACH pirate turn (player-turn). But only one of those cards may be used for Actions.

So if you have a hand of four cards, you could play one for Actions and the other three for Events. It's highly unlikely, however, that you'll ever have such a hand, because you'll almost always have 2-3 Anti-Pirate cards (which of course can't be used for Events during the pirate's own turn). This is the way the game was playtested from beginning to end.

I'll be sure to clarify any and all points that could be read otherwise.

Many, many thanks for pointing this out.




WOW! This changes things quite a bit and it seems will make the game go faster! I thought at first a player could use multiple cards but then I was convinced you could not. Thanks for the rules clarification.

P.S. I am now looking forward to a FAQ!
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Francis K. Lalumiere
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dougadamsau wrote:

I've also written all over one of my play aids, and fixed some errors.

I'm just going through the rules myself.
What are the mistakes you've noticed on the play aids?
 
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Paul Szilagyi
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johnnyspys wrote:

WOW! This changes things quite a bit...


Wow indeed.
surprise
 
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Neil Randall
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Well, in actual play, it doesn't make that much difference. The vast majority of times during playtesting, a pirate player would play only one card anyway.

So it's actually not a wow, more like an "ah".

 
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David Klempa
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nrandall wrote:
Well, in actual play, it doesn't make that much difference. The vast majority of times during playtesting, a pirate player would play only one card anyway.

So it's actually not a wow, more like an "ah".



True.
I think the only cards a Pirate would play during his own turn (aside from the one played for actions) are Letter of Marque and Skull and Crossbones.
 
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Devon Harmon
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Dave Klempa wrote:

I think the only cards a Pirate would play during his own turn (aside from the one played for actions) are Letter of Marque and Skull and Crossbones.


I find it handy to play Fair Winds for the event (and a different card for actions) on my turn. That way I can move away a KC who is breathing down my neck, or move my ship great distances and then still have 2 or 3 actions left to spend.

 
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David Klempa
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Devon Harmon wrote:
I find it handy to play Fair Winds for the event (and a different card for actions) on my turn. That way I can move away a KC who is breathing down my neck, or move my ship great distances and then still have 2 or 3 actions left to spend.


As would I.
But I believe the Fair Winds card is an '1 Action AND Event' card. So if you play the Event you're also commintted to taking only one Action.
 
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Devon Harmon
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Dave Klempa wrote:

But I believe the Fair Winds card is an '1 Action AND Event' card. So if you play the Event you're also commintted to taking only one Action.


I don't think it works that way.

17.12 says "if the event card is to be played for actions AND event, then the player must enact the Event, then undertake that many Actions after he plays that Event. He must play the Event; otherwise he doesn't get to use the Actions."

Note that it does not say that he must use the actions to play the event.

Then 17.14 says "Only one Event Card per Player-Turn may be used for actions (except in the case covered by 4.55); any other Event Card(s) played by that Player in that Player-Turn may only be used for the Event.

Also, one of the points under 17.11 reads "A line indicating if the card can be played for Actions AND the Event" (emphasis mine)

Furthermore, in the explanation of the Fair Winds card on page 19, it states "The use of this card is not an Action; players may undertake Actions in addition to using this card." (emphasis mine). The specific rules for this card say that you can take actions in addition to using the card.

My reading of the rules in conjunction is that Fair Winds may be played solely for the event, provided that one has already played another card for actions. The rules don't seem to say that if one wants to play the event on an AND card, they are bound by the actions on that card. They do state that if you want to play the AND card for actions you must also play the event.

I realize that all of the above is subject to interpretation. Any thoughts Neil?
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Neil Randall
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Devon is correct - you may play the Fair Winds event only. The card is particularly useful in that it allows both the event and actions, but only the event is actually mandatory.
 
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David Klempa
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Devon Harmon wrote:

I don't think it works that way.

17.12 says "if the event card is to be played for actions AND event, then the player must enact the Event, then undertake that many Actions after he plays that Event. He must play the Event; otherwise he doesn't get to use the Actions."

Note that it does not say that he must use the actions to play the event.

Per the emphasis above, that is what it says.

As I recall, the whole concept caused a bit of discussion in playtest, but that's the way it was explained.

If you can play the 'Event AND Action cards for the Event or the Action, what is the difference between 'Event AND Action' and 'Event OR Action' cards? There are only three of them after all (Buried Treasure, Fair Wind and Heavy Guns) and they all only give you one action after the event. Why would you ever use them for the (1) Action if you didn't have to?
 
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David Klempa
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nrandall wrote:
Devon is correct - you may play the Fair Winds event only. The card is particularly useful in that it allows both the event and actions, but only the event is actually mandatory.


But in versions prior to the published rules, the Fair Winds cards were special 'Event Only' cards. Now they are 'Action AND Event' cards.

Does this mean that the other 'Action AND Event' acrds can now be played for Event only? If so, why would you ever want to limit yourself to the one Action they give you?

 
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Devon Harmon
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17.12 says "if the event card is to be played for Actions AND Event, then the player must enact the event, then undertake that many Actions after he plays that event..."

What if you are just playing it for the event after having already played a different card for actions? 17.14 says that any other event cards may only be used for the event.

Why would anyone ever use them for the (1) action if they didn't have to? To quote Neil fromn the D&R thread "Well, one way to look at it is that not every possible action in a game needs to be advantageous to the player performing it. It could simply be something that newcomers would try and then learn that it's not very useful."

Why do the specific rules for Fair Winds explicitly state "players may undertake ACTIONS in addition to using this card"?

Anyway, we clearly have a disagreement as to the interpretation of the limitations on how EVENT AND ACTION cards are to be played. Perhaps Neil can clarify how these work.

-edit- It seems that Neil has responded while I was typing. So it seems the AND events are really AND/OR, with a silent (and invisible) OR. Not very intuitive. THis will hopefully be cleared up in the anxiously awaited FAQ.
 
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Robert Voisin
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That's why I had asked the question in the start, because I was also under the impression you get to play 1 card and use it for the event only, or actions only or for both actions and event. Not sure it really seems fair to be able to play multiple cards on your turn. Because I would do my best to get a new hand each turn unless there is that 1 card to keep till needed, Skull and Crossbones for example. And cards like the fair winds moving you any where on the map already seems powerful enough, than to get to do 3 actions after it also just does not seem fair.
 
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David Klempa
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Devon Harmon wrote:
Anyway, we clearly have a disagreement as to the interpretation of the limitations on how EVENT AND ACTION cards are to be played. Perhaps Neil can clarify how these work.

Fair enough.

It's not my intention to be argumentative. It's just that some subtle new word changes have entered the rules that seem to be causing confusion and I'm trying to sort them out. (The play note under 9.55; pg 15, is another example).
 
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Richard Berg
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The Phrase ACTION AND EVENT means the card MUST be p[layed for the Event . . . and it MAY be p[layed for the Action. Not "must". The 'OR' cards mean one or the other.

So you could play "Fair Winds" for the Event, ignore the Action, and then play another card that has more actions.

As for playing all your cards and then loading up next time around, it[s how I like to play . . . and it's a definite play strategy (depennding on what the cards are, to be sure).

Hope that helps . . .

RHB
 
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Neil Randall
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Quote:
The Phrase ACTION AND EVENT means the card MUST be played for the Event . . . and it MAY be p[layed for the Action. Not "must". The 'OR' cards mean one or the other.


Yes to both (as obviously Richard already knows - I'm just confirming).

Dave, we went to an Action AND Event for those cards at some point during development - can't remember when. For these cards, while you MUST play the event, you don't have to use the action. At no time may you simply use the 1 action without using the event.

So "Action AND Event" is simply a way we came up with of distinguishing these cards from "Action OR Event"; in the latter, you have to choose between playing the event or the action.

And yes, you may play as many cards for Pirate Events as you wish during YOUR player-turn - but you may play only ONE card for actions.

 
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David Klempa
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Richard & Neil,

Aye, aye, Captain(s).

I think I've got it now.

Thanks.
 
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