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Subject: Questions about KCs (moved from offical Q&A) rss

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Bill Koens
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I have questions about KC actions. We were quite confused about how many time a turn a KC may act, and if a KC can act immediately after it is deployed. In 10.23, it states "a KC, once activated against a Pirate in a Player-Turn, may harass that Pirate repeatedly, until the Pirate moves into an adjacent Sea Area." So which of these moves are legal?

(FM = find merchant, LM = loot merchant)

1. Pirate announces FM, another player makes successful KC roll, draws a KC and immediately attempts intercept.

2. KC and Pirate in N Atl., Pirate announces move to S. Atl, KC announces move to S. Atl and interception attempt. After this, KC can act no longer because Pirate has moved into an adjacent Sea Area.

3. KC in S. Atl, Pirate in N. Atl, Pirate announces move to S. Atl, KC stays and attempts intercept. After this KC may not act again.

4. Pirate in N. Atl announces FM, KC in Gold Coast activates moves to Gold Coast/Caribbean transit box, Pirate announces LM, KC continues move.
 
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Allen Doum
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Xelvonar wrote:
So which of these moves are legal?

(FM = find merchant, LM = loot merchant)

1. Pirate announces FM, another player makes successful KC roll, draws a KC and immediately attempts intercept.


Not legal, as the interception is a seperate action than the deploy

Quote:
2. KC and Pirate in N Atl., Pirate announces move to S. Atl, KC announces move to S. Atl and interception attempt. After this, KC can act no longer because Pirate has moved into an adjacent Sea Area.


Not quite. If the pirate continues to do actions in the S. Atlantic, the KC can continue to react.

Quote:
3. KC in S. Atl, Pirate in N. Atl, Pirate announces move to S. Atl, KC stays and attempts intercept. After this KC may not act again.


Again, the KC may react to additional actions in the S. Atl.

Quote:
4. Pirate in N. Atl announces FM, KC in Gold Coast activates moves to Gold Coast/Caribbean transit box, Pirate announces LM, KC continues move.


Unless the KC could move to the N. Atl. with a Fair Winds card (and I am not sure that one could be played here, because it is not an AP card) then the KC could not react at all.
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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AllenDoum wrote:
Xelvonar wrote:
Quote:
4. Pirate in N. Atl announces FM, KC in Gold Coast activates moves to Gold Coast/Caribbean transit box, Pirate announces LM, KC continues move.


Unless the KC could move to the N. Atl. with a Fair Winds card (and I am not sure that one could be played here, because it is not an AP card) then the KC could not react at all.


Oops, we played this wrong in our games. I thought you could activate the KC no matter where the pirate was...

-Jorge
 
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Christopher Hill
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Quote:
Not legal, as the interception is a seperate action than the deploy


Allen, this is interesting. I was reading the Play Note in section 10.3 of the rules to mean that a KC intercept action can not be played on a newly deployed pirate. When someone attempts to deploy a KC and is successful, then I would think they could attempt an intercept at the same time if the KC is successfully deployed. The rules do allow an existing KC to move one adjacent space before attempting an intercept, so why would it be any different for the initial deployment of the KC?
 
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Richard Berg
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kinga1965 wrote:
Quote:
Not legal, as the interception is a seperate action than the deploy


Allen, this is interesting. I was reading the Play Note in section 10.3 of the rules to mean that a KC intercept action can not be played on a newly deployed pirate. When someone attempts to deploy a KC and is successful, then I would think they could attempt an intercept at the same time if the KC is successfully deployed. The rules do allow an existing KC to move one adjacent space before attempting an intercept, so why would it be any different for the initial deployment of the KC?


Several reasons . . . for one, to allow such would make the KC's bit more powerful than we wanted. If you want a historical rational, consider that these KC were new to these areas and needed some time to find out what was what . . . . that is why newly placed Kc cannot just jump into action.

RHB


 
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Christopher Hill
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Thanks for the clarification, Richard. What you said makes sense. I am thoroughly enjoying learning the ins and outs of this game.

I don't know if this KC deploy thing was confusing to anyone else, but it certainly was to me. In the play note, in parenthesis, it says 'because the deploy a pirate action is not listed above.' The 'deploy a pirate action' is a pirate action, hence my confusion. I think I would have understood the intent here if the text in the parenthesis was just left out. Or maybe, the note could have just said, 'When first deployed, a KC can not make an intercept attempt on a pirate.' So, this brings my follow up question. If a pirate is deployed into a space with an opponents KC, can the KC immediately conduct a intercept action?
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Tony M
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OK. I'm really confused now.

10.24 implies that KCs *ARE* able to move.

But 10.23 implies that a Pirate moving to an adjacent space somehow deactivates the KC.

---

However, during the course of that Player-Turn, that one KC may
perform a KC Action against the specified Pirate each time that Pirate
conducts one of the Actions listed in 10.3. In other words, a KC, once
activated against a Pirate in a Player-Turn, may harass that Pirate
repeatedly, until the Pirate moves into an adjacent Sea Area
(even the one from which the KC might have just entered, and even if the Pirate comes right back into the KC’s Sea Area in the same Player-Turn), or until the Player-Turn is finished.


---

Finally, 10.31 explictly allows a KC to react to a Pirate move action.

So apparently sometimes a KC can react to a move, even though 10.23 seems to imply a pirate moving disables an activated KC ?

----

Can someone please provide clarification here. Is it:

1) A KC does not need to be in the same space as the pirate when activated.

2) However, if after a KC is activated(and takes 1 AP action), if a pirate subsequently takes a Move action to an adjaced sea area, the KC becomes deactivated and may not take any further AP actions.

This seems WAY more complicated than it should be....

-T

 
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Bill Koens
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Quote:
1) A KC does not need to be in the same space as the pirate when activated.

2) However, if after a KC is activated(and takes 1 AP action), if a pirate subsequently takes a Move action to an adjaced sea area, the KC becomes deactivated and may not take any further AP actions.

This seems WAY more complicated than it should be....


This is how I read the rules also, and I agree it is way more complicated than it should be. But also, the rules state that you can react at the beginning or end of a move: thus if a pirate is moving out of your area you can react because he hasn't left the area yet. But some of the responses above ("Not quite. If the pirate continues to do actions in the S. Atlantic, the KC can continue to react.") imply you can continue to act after the pirate has left the area, which appears to directly contradict the rule quoted from 10.23 above.

So what is the intent of the rule? Is it the idea that you can react as long as the pirate acting is in your area? But if he leaves, couldn't you then just follow and continue to harass?

It's all quite confusing. What is the designer's intent here?

-Bill
 
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Allen Doum
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Xelvonar wrote:
This is how I read the rules also, and I agree it is way more complicated than it should be. But also, the rules state that you can react at the beginning or end of a move: thus if a pirate is moving out of your area you can react because he hasn't left the area yet. But some of the responses above ("Not quite. If the pirate continues to do actions in the S. Atlantic, the KC can continue to react.") imply you can continue to act after the pirate has left the area, which appears to directly contradict the rule quoted from 10.23 above.

I'll let Richard respond to intent, but the way the rule reads is that a KC can only respond in one area, whether or not either the KC or the pirate has moved.

So on a pirate move from one area another, a KC could respond before the move is executed, which would be the only response it would make that turn.

Or the KC could respond after the move was executed, and would be eligable to continue to respond in that area.

In either case the KC can move to the area where it responding. If the KC moves to respond, there is a -1 modifier to it's Speed.
 
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Paul Szilagyi
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Expanding on what AllenDoum wrote, consider the following EXAMPLE:

A Pirate and a KC are both in the West Caribbean Sea Area. The KC is active, and it is the Pirate's turn (e.g. The KC didn't just arrive).

The Pirate has three actions, this turn.
As his first action, in an attempt to 'lose' the KC, our Pirate will attempt to Move to the East Caribbean Sea Area.

Since Move is a trigger-action, the KC will attempt to Intercept/Engage as it happens.

If the KC's Intercept is successful, combat ensues.
If the KC's Intercept is NOT successful, and the Pirate escapes to the East Caribbean, he could use his remaining two actions any way he likes, without fear of getting attacked by that KC.

He could even Move back into the West Caribbean, and Attack the Port at Port Royal, for instance, and the KC still wouldn't find him.

ON HIS (the Pirate's) NEXT TURN, however, whether or not the Pirate is in the West Caribbean, the KC will again be active.

If he attempts to Move from the East Caribbean (assuming he stayed there) to the South American Sea Area, the KC (from the West Caribbean) could attempt to Intercept/Engage him from there, suffering the -1 Speed penalty for moving into a new Sea Area to Intercept.
 
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Christopher Hill
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Paul,

That clears up things for me a bit. However, to reiterate my previous question, can a KC be activated when a new pirate is deployed to the same space the KC is in? I think 'no', but I am not sure because, I misunderstood the meaning of the play note in section 10.31.
 
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Allen Doum
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kinga1965 wrote:
Paul,

That clears up things for me a bit. However, to reiterate my previous question, can a KC be activated when a new pirate is deployed to the same space the KC is in? I think 'no', but I am not sure because, I misunderstood the meaning of the play note in section 10.31.

No, because Deploy Pirate is not an action that a KC can react to.

Off course, the newly deployed pirate has a Noteriety of zero, so there is not much reason to react even if you could.
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Neil Randall
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Quote:
So what is the intent of the rule? Is it the idea that you can react as long as the pirate acting is in your area? But if he leaves, couldn't you then just follow and continue to harass?


Yes, but not as part of the same action. You need to wait until the next pirate action to do so, at which time you may play a KC action (if otherwise available, of course).

The idea in 10.24 is that, if the pirate is doing stuff in the same sea area as the KC, the KC can continue to react to him in that same Pirate Action (i.e., it's not subject to the standard rule that you can do only one AP action type inside a given pirate Action). But as soon as the pirate leaves the sea area, the KC can't react within that same action.

We did this to allow for considerably harassment but not infinite harassment. Basically, by leaving the sea zones, the pirate is running away, and once he does so he's escaped for the moment. But remember that as soon as the pirate ANNOUNCES the move action the KC MAY intercept; he doesn't have to wait until the movement is complete. So in effect it can happen in that sea area anyway.

Hope this helps.

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Neil Randall
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Oops.

The Play Note in 10.31 should read:

Play Note: A KC may not intercept a Pirate on the Player-Turn a Pirate is placed (because the Deploy a Pirate Action is not listed above).

Sorry about using an undefined "it".
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Tony M
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nrandall wrote:

Yes, but not as part of the same action. You need to wait until the next pirate action to do so, at which time you may play a KC action (if otherwise available, of course).
...
But as soon as the pirate leaves the sea area, the KC can't react within that same action.
...
But remember that as soon as the pirate ANNOUNCES the move action the KC MAY intercept; he doesn't have to wait until the movement is complete. So in effect it can happen in that sea area anyway.


So say the pirate and KC are both in the eastern carribean. Pirate plays an action card for 3 Actions.

PA 1: Move from Eastern C. to Western C. sea space.

KC AP 1: *MAY* respond by intercepting BEFORE the pirate moves, but may *NOT* wait for the pirate to move and THEN intercept.

PA 2: Find merchant ship in Western C.
KC AP 2: KC *MAY* move to western C. AND attempt an intercept at -1 Penalty, since it is now a new pirate action.

This is allowed ? And if so, I have a hard time seeing how the "pirate moving away" rule reduces KC harassment...the KC was still able to attempt an intercept on each pirate action despite the pirate moving away.

Or did you mean:

nrandall wrote:

Yes, but not as part of the same action. pirate turn.


Thanks,
T
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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As I understand it, you don't need the pirate to be in the same area as the KC in order to activate the KC. But after the first action, if both the kc and the pirate are not in the same area, the kc stops taking actions.

That's where the KC action of moving + intercepting (at -1) is useful, because you can then continue to harass the pirate afterwards...
 
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Tony M
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maka,

Your interpretation is how I'm interpreting this as well.

However, I was confused by Neil's post, which uses the term action instead of player turn or action phase.

I know it seems like I'm splitting hairs, but the distinction is important.

nrandall wrote:
But as soon as the pirate leaves the sea area, the KC can't react within that same action.


An action is a single action within the actions phase, which may contain 1-3 pirate actions depending on the card played.

This implies that the KC can continue to act in subsequent pirate actions within the same player turn after the pirate has moved away.

-T


 
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