Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Blackbeard» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Thoughts about retiring earlier/later rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In our last game I retired my pirates sooner to make sure I cashed in those vps before fate killed them, and I was thinking. Is there any reward for managing to stay on the board longer? I mean: 2 pirates that retire with 2000 net worth and 20 notoriety points each will be worth exactly the same in vps as one pirate that reaches 4000 net worth and 40 notoriety points. The only difference is the extra actions needed to retire and deploy...

I guess, maybe there's no point, or maybe it's just that a powerful enough pirate will be able to get much more net worth and notoriety in a limited time than 2 or 3 smaller ones would...

I guess there must be a balance and figuring it out may just be one of the fun things about the game

-Jorge
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Nesbitt
Canada
Ajax
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, sadly we all realized this in our first game of the new Blackbeard as well. Why bother sending out the same pirate when you can retire him early and draw a new one?

This aspect of the game is abusable. Noteriety should have been obtained at an exponential rate so as to reward those pirates willing to take a chance and head back out to sea. Oh well, there's plenty of other issues with Blackbeard anyways...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, I'm still not sure that it's a problem because there's the possibility that once a pirate becomes strong enough he'll be able to rack up notoriety points at a faster rate than one that just started up (by attacking and sacking ports). This way, the greater risk would have a greater reward.

But if it would indeed be a problem, it's just a matter of changing the formula to convert notoriety to vps, from a linear one ( vp = 2 x n ) to something like vp = 1/25 * n^2 this way, pirates that retire early are penalized because unless they reach 50nt points, they'll get less vps than with the old 2x formula. Problem is, from 50 onwards, vps skyrocket so with 100nt you get 400vps. But I'm sure a nice formula could be found if needed.

-Jorge

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Hancock
United States
Charleston
West Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think it is as unbalanced as you say. One old pirate will have a lot more information, a stronger ship, plus there are the actions saved. The other thing to think about is the different stats of each pirate. If you've got one strong pirate, why retire him to bring out one of the weaker pirates?

Doing multiple pirates certainly has its advantages, but I don't think changing the VP ratios will do anything except force everyone to grab one pirate and use him for the entire game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, as I said, I'm not sure there's a problem there yet. This is not something that will come out only after a couple of games...

I definitively want to try other strategies first.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Neil Randall
Canada
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmb
maka wrote:
Yeah, as I said, I'm not sure there's a problem there yet. This is not something that will come out only after a couple of games...


Yes, definitely. In playtesting, though, it took longer than a couple of games for the optimal retirement strategies to emerge - in fact, it never did become clear which might be better.

But certainly shorter careers were designed into the game, because the fact is that pirates retired. We liked the idea of a revolving cast of characters, not a single pirate who stayed out there the whole time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Nesbitt
Canada
Ajax
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Try this:

Take a pirate, let him get one batch of treasure (all his holds full, or just one hold... whatever), and then run him to shore to retire. Do this as fast as you can, and as many times as you can. Run the pirate draw pile dry.

This strategy will force your opponents to copy your strategy, or else face certain death from high noteriety making them easy targets for KCs. Meanwhile, your fleet of amateur pirates have very little chance of ever encountering a KC.

It's not a 100% successful strategy, in my opinion, but it is the optimal strategy. Games don't work very well when there's an optimal strategy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not sure about that at all. Each pirate you retire wastes 2 actions. That's not counting possible (if unlikely) KC actions that oust you from a port when you're about to retire, etc... (I've done this in our last game). Meanwhile, another player is getting more notoriety each turn and if finally manages to retire will win for sure.

Sure, by using that many pirates, you won't waste many vps if one dies. But I don't think that's an optimal strategy at all.

Also, The safest way to retire a pirate is by buying a safe haven. With your strategy, you'd waste a lot of net worth (sometimes maybe even half of what a pirete got) to retire. With less pirates you pay less times and also a smaller percentage.

-Jorge
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Nesbitt
Canada
Ajax
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Before having that very strategy played against me, I would have entirely agreed with you.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
eryn roston
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
otrex wrote:
Before having that very strategy played against me, I would have entirely agreed with you.


How would you fix this? DO you/ would you play with some sorta house rule?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Klempa
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
baditude wrote:
How would you fix this? DO you/ would you play with some sorta house rule?


Some additional thoughts:
Less than half of the pirates have an Ability of 4+, which would give them a >50% chance to Find a Merchant on the first try - speed is of the essence in this strategy.

With 3-4 players, a game only lasts around 11-12 turns. A pirate needs at least 6 actions per 'career' (Deploy, Find Merchant, Loot, Move to port, Convert booty to Net Worth, Retire). At an average of 2 actions per turn, you can only get thru about four pirates.

It seems like these 'amatuers' would be retiring with an average of only 5-6 NP (from capturing the Merchant and torturing the hostage).

You can only retire at a pro-pirate port. There are only 8 to start and the number just goes down during the game.

Assuming no LoM or Safe Haven, you would need an average of 3500 Net Worth to bribe the Governor - I don't think these guys could consistantly acquire that much.

Aggressive AP play (mutiny, warships, etc.) by the other players should be put a kink in the process.

In summary, IMO while this strategy could work in the right circumstances, it is not dominant so no 'fix' is needed.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.