James Bentley
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Well, Burning Drachens should be delivered tomorrow, but the more I read about it, the more I've decided to get a couple of minis. Couple of questions:

1. I'll be playing mainly solo at first, so which 1 or 2 minis are recommended to first acquire for solo play? And what minis to buy next for the 2-player game of Burning Drachens?

2. Later I'll want to expand...which "expansion game" is recommended next in line (Famous Aces, Watch Your Back, etc.)? (BTW, can these other "expansion" games be included in a solo game?)

3. THEN later, if I want to keep buying minis, which ones next? Is there a preferred order in acquiring them, as far as what is best to buy before others?

Thanks for all input, as always!
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Ted Groth
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If you are only planning to get two planes, There are some pairs that work well for a 2-player dogfight. Some other combinations don't match up as well.

From series 1:
Fokker Dr. 1 Triplane vs. Sopwith Camel
Albatross vs. Spad

From series 2:
Fokker Dr VII vs Sopwith Snipe

Choose the individual planes of each type based on your favourite color scheme or pilot.

I would buy these pairs in the order listed above.
The first four work well together, for a four person game. These are the same four plane types as in Famous Aces, so if you get all four, you really don't need to get that set. (although it is a great stand-alone set if you don't have the miniatures)

The Fokker Dr VII and Sopwith Snipe are the same planes you get in the "Top Fighters" card deck, so you won't really need that deck either if you get those planes.

The Two-seater miniatures from series 2 mostly use the "B" damage deck, only found in "Watch Your Back." These planes work best in scenarios with multiple players rather that 2-player dogfights. You may eventually want to get these mini's and the boxed game too, but you will know when you want them. I wouldn't get them first.

Note: I mentioned unbalanced combinations:

The Fokker Dr VII or Sopwith Snipe are planes from late in the war, and can easily overpower the earlier four planes in a one-on-one contest. They are a good match for each other though, and very interesting to fly! (and interesting to try against the Camel or Dr.1 if you WANT to have an unbalanced fight, just to see how it plays out)

Fokker Dr 1 vs Spad is an awkward match for one-on-one play. The Fokker is slow and fragile, but turns easily, while the Spad is fast and sturdy but makes wide turns. The Fokker can't catch up with the Spad, while the Spad can't get the Fokker in his sights - and so they really can't hurt each other and the game drags on too long. Altitude rules probably help even these two out, but I haven't tried that combination yet.

My favorite homebrew scenario is to play the four different planes from series 1, in teams of two, with an observation balloon for each team near the ends of the table, at least one measuring stick distance from the edge. The goal is to either shoot down both opposing planes or shoot down the opposing balloon, while defending your own balloon. No altitude rules, no special ammunition. If you fly onto the enemy observation balloon you draw one "A" damage card for your plane for each turn that your card is still touching the balloon card (none for the balloon) because tether lines from the balloon may have clipped your wings. You can fly over your own observation balloon without harm, because you know how it is placed. Simple enough scenario to set up and explain, and yet complex enough to be interesting.
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James Bentley
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Thanks for the help, what is the difference in series 1 & series 2? How do I know which is which when ordering? (Is it "Series 1 Planes" & "Series 2 Planes"...? Sorry for the ignorance, I'm REALLY new to this!)

Thanks,
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Tradewinds Ted wrote:
If you are only planning to get two planes, There are some pairs that work well for a 2-player dogfight. Some other combinations don't match up as well.

From series 1:
Fokker Dr. 1 Triplane vs. Sopwith Camel
Albatross vs. Spad

From series 2:
Fokker Dr VII vs Sopwith Snipe

Choose the individual planes of each type based on your favourite color scheme or pilot.

I would buy these pairs in the order listed above.
The first four work well together, for a four person game. These are the same four plane types as in Famous Aces, so if you get all four, you really don't need to get that set. (although it is a great stand-alone set if you don't have the miniatures)

The Fokker Dr VII and Sopwith Snipe are the same planes you get in the "Top Fighters" card deck, so you won't really need that deck either if you get those planes.

The Two-seater miniatures from series 2 mostly use the "B" damage deck, only found in "Watch Your Back." These planes work best in scenarios with multiple players rather that 2-player dogfights. You may eventually want to get these mini's and the boxed game too, but you will know when you want them. I wouldn't get them first.

Note: I mentioned unbalanced combinations:

The Fokker Dr VII or Sopwith Snipe are planes from late in the war, and can easily overpower the earlier four planes in a one-on-one contest. They are a good match for each other though, and very interesting to fly! (and interesting to try against the Camel or Dr.1 if you WANT to have an unbalanced fight, just to see how it plays out)

Fokker Dr 1 vs Spad is an awkward match for one-on-one play. The Fokker is slow and fragile, but turns easily, while the Spad is fast and sturdy but makes wide turns. The Fokker can't catch up with the Spad, while the Spad can't get the Fokker in his sights - and so they really can't hurt each other and the game drags on too long. Altitude rules probably help even these two out, but I haven't tried that combination yet.

My favorite homebrew scenario is to play the four different planes from series 1, in teams of two, with an observation balloon for each team near the ends of the table, at least one measuring stick distance from the edge. The goal is to either shoot down both opposing planes or shoot down the opposing balloon, while defending your own balloon. No altitude rules, no special ammunition. If you fly onto the enemy observation balloon you draw one "A" damage card for your plane for each turn that your card is still touching the balloon card (none for the balloon) because tether lines from the balloon may have clipped your wings. You can fly over your own observation balloon without harm, because you know how it is placed. Simple enough scenario to set up and explain, and yet complex enough to be interesting.



Hmmm, I just realized....I can buy the 4 recommended minis for around $8 each, for $32, OR buy Wings of War-Famous Aces that includes those minis (plus 1 more) for around $20....wouldn't THAT be the way to go? Those minis included in WOW-Famous Aces ARE the ones you recommended aren't they, unless I read something wrong?

Sorry for making this so complicated, I just want to start off right...

Thanks,
jrbentley
 
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Andrea Angiolino
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jrbentley wrote:
Hmmm, I just realized....I can buy the 4 recommended minis for around $8 each, for $32, OR buy Wings of War-Famous Aces that includes those minis (plus 1 more) for around $20....wouldn't THAT be the way to go?


Sorry, the boxes only have cards - No minis in Famous Aces.

There is only one box with minis - these four, in the DeLuxe box. But it is released only in some non-English speaking countries.

 
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angiolillo wrote:
jrbentley wrote:
Hmmm, I just realized....I can buy the 4 recommended minis for around $8 each, for $32, OR buy Wings of War-Famous Aces that includes those minis (plus 1 more) for around $20....wouldn't THAT be the way to go?


Sorry, the boxes only have cards - No minis in Famous Aces.

There is only one box with minis - these four, in the DeLuxe box. But it is released only in some non-English speaking countries.



Aha, I see now that I misunderstood the description, thanks Andrea for clearing that up.

Now, I'll order those minis, but which "expansion box" should I get next...FA, WYB...?

Thanks!
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If you have Drachens already and plan on getting the series 1 miniatures, you don't have a lot of reasons to buy FA.

You would get more and different versions of the 4 planes, plus you'd get the Sopwith Triplane.

Getting WyB would give you the "B" damage deck (that you don't have), plus an additional "H" deck you can use for the fast 2 seaters-- Series 2 offers the DH4 and the Ufag will come later.

For playing games with cards instead of miniatures, you'll also get the Hanroit, which is a very interesting plane to mix against the planes in FA and BD.

And you'll get some "older" planes that are appropriate to the Roland Whale miniature and it's deck.

Save time and confusion-- buy them all! (don't forget "Recon Patrol" either-- if you're going for miniatures, you have less reason to buy "Top Fighters," save for some more and interesting paint schemes for card-planes, plus Russian CW and post WWI scenarios.).
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kduke wrote:
If you have Drachens already and plan on getting the series 1 miniatures, you don't have a lot of reasons to buy FA.

You would get more and different versions of the 4 planes, plus you'd get the Sopwith Triplane.

Getting WyB would give you the "B" damage deck (that you don't have), plus an additional "H" deck you can use for the fast 2 seaters-- Series 2 offers the DH4 and the Ufag will come later.

For playing games with cards instead of miniatures, you'll also get the Hanroit, which is a very interesting plane to mix against the planes in FA and BD.

And you'll get some "older" planes that are appropriate to the Roland Whale miniature and it's deck.

Save time and confusion-- buy them all! (don't forget "Recon Patrol" either-- if you're going for miniatures, you have less reason to buy "Top Fighters," save for some more and interesting paint schemes for card-planes, plus Russian CW and post WWI scenarios.).


Thanks, Kevin, I appreciate your advice...

Now I'm not terribly sure what to buy. I'd love to get the whole shebang, but cannot do so at this time. Like I said, as far as minis go, I'd like to go ahead and get the 4 mentioned above (from series 1): the Fokker Dr. 1 Triplane, Sopwith Camel, Albatross and Spad. Plus, if I want to add an "expansion" for 3-4 player games, which one is recommended?
If I get the 4 minis I mentioned, will that suffice for Burning Drachens (including solo play) PLUS work for a 3-4 player expansion, whichever one would work with those mentioned? And which expansion would that be?

Man, the more I look into this, the more questions I have. Sorry to be so ignorant about these things, as I said earlier, I want to start off right.

Thanks,
jrbentley
 
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Avenell wrote:
Hello Mr Bentley, I just bought Burning Drachens and two mini's, so perhaps I can clear up your confusion.

Burning Drachens is for playing with 2 people. It provides you with two control boards (NOT essential to playing, but nice to have), two maneuver decks (so you can fly two planes), an A-damage deck (so you can fly up to four twin firing planes), a ton of balloons and AA guns etc, and no mini's.

With just burning drachens, you can only fly two planes (just cards) because you only have two maneuver decks.

However, getting a mini gets you a nifty looking miniature plane, a plane card to go with it, and the maneuver deck you need to fly that plane. If you have the damage deck to go with it (which you do, the A-damage deck), then you are fine.

So, if you bought the four mini's from Famous Aces, you now have ZERO reason to buy FA.

My advice is to start out with Burning Drachens (which you've done), and get the four mini's from Famous Aces, which it looks like you plan to do. Then play that and see how much you like the game. If you love it, your friends love it and you want more, then it's time to get Watch Your Back! (WYB).

Why WYB? Because the only thing you are lacking now is an A-firing deck for single machinegun planes, and buying WYB is the only way to get it. Dont feel too gipped about not getting it in Burning Drachens, there are rules to figure out ways around it, but WYB will give you the A-damage deck you need plus introduce Two-seater planes to your game.

From that point forward, you'll understand enough from looking at all the other mini's and expansions to understand what you need and how to get it.

Enjoy

Quote:
If I get the 4 minis I mentioned, will that suffice for Burning Drachens (including solo play) PLUS work for a 3-4 player expansion, whichever one would work with those mentioned?


YES! In fact, Burning Drachens + 4 mini's will let you play easily with 3-4 people without requiring anything else.



Thanks, Josh, I really, really appreciate your input. This has cleared up a lot for me.
I did indeed get those 4 minis mentioned...I'm hopefully going to get to play this weekend (holiday - Memorial Day! Yayyyyy!)

Thanks,
jrbentley
 
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Avenell wrote:
Why WYB? Because the only thing you are lacking now is an A-firing deck for single machinegun planes, and buying WYB is the only way to get it. Dont feel too gipped about not getting it in Burning Drachens, there are rules to figure out ways around it, but WYB will give you the A-damage deck you need plus introduce Two-seater planes to your game.


He wrote "A-firing deck" but he means the "B-firing deck". The B-deck is the one in Watch Your Back. Here's the break-down:

Famous Aces:
Damage Deck: A
Maneuver Decks: A, B, C, D

Watch Your Back!
Damage Deck: B
Maneuver Decks: E, F, G, H

Burning Drachens
Damage Decks: A, C, D
Maneuver Decks: I, J

So, you already have Damage Deck A from Burning Drachens. If you buy the four recommended Series I miniatures and a copy of Watch Your Back, you'll have all four damage decks and maneuver decks A through J. The card decks are what you really need to play; after that you can pretty much proxy your four minis for any of the planes you want to play.


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Elstree wrote:
Avenell wrote:
Why WYB? Because the only thing you are lacking now is an A-firing deck for single machinegun planes, and buying WYB is the only way to get it. Dont feel too gipped about not getting it in Burning Drachens, there are rules to figure out ways around it, but WYB will give you the A-damage deck you need plus introduce Two-seater planes to your game.


He wrote "A-firing deck" but he means the "B-firing deck". The B-deck is the one in Watch Your Back. Here's the break-down:

Famous Aces:
Damage Deck: A
Maneuver Decks: A, B, C, D

Watch Your Back!
Damage Deck: B
Maneuver Decks: E, F, G, H

Burning Drachens
Damage Decks: A, C, D
Maneuver Decks: I, J

So, you already have Damage Deck A from Burning Drachens. If you buy the four recommended Series I miniatures and a copy of Watch Your Back, you'll have all four damage decks and maneuver decks A through J. The card decks are what you really need to play; after that you can pretty much proxy your four minis for any of the planes you want to play.






Thank you for your help!

I did get the 4 minis as I said, along with Burning Drachens. And I definitely plan on getting Watch Your Back.

If I want to continue to collect the minis, which ones should I get next to use them with Watch Your Back? Will they be "compatible" with what I already have? If I only buy about 2 at a time, which ones are "priority"?

As far as "proxying" the planes I currently own for others, do I use the stats that are printed on the mini's bases or still use the stats on the cards in play, simply using the minis for "effect"...?

BTW, what is the difference between the Series 1 minis and the Series 2 minis?

Thanks, I very much appreciate your help.
jrbentley
 
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Series 1 was the first "batch" of minis to be released for WoW. Series 2 was the second "batch". So mostly it refers to the time sequence of release.

Each series had four different plane types each with 3 different paint schemes (a total of 12 planes).

Series 1 had the Spad XIII, the Sopwith Camel, the Albatross D.Va, and the Fokker Dr.I (triplane).

Series 2 had the Fokker D.VII, the Sopwith Snipe, the LFG Roland C.II and the D.H. 4. Just be careful with the Roland and the D.H. 4 as not all have the same damage decks and one Roland has no rear gunner (the Richthofen one).
 
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Elstree wrote:

He wrote "A-firing deck" but he means the "B-firing deck". The B-deck is the one in Watch Your Back. Here's the break-down:

Famous Aces:
Damage Deck: A
Maneuver Decks: A, B, C, D

Watch Your Back!
Damage Deck: B
Maneuver Decks: E, F, G, H

Burning Drachens
Damage Decks: A, C, D
Maneuver Decks: I, J


Sorry for hijacking the thread somehow, but I have an order that is waiting to be shipped of WoW Deluxe and Famous aces, and reading this I wonder If I'm not making a mistake. Should I drop Famous Aces from the order and replace it with burning drachens?

edit : deluxe contains those planes :
Fokker DR. I
Spad XIII
Sopwith Camel
Albatros D.Va
 
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Avenell wrote:
Carthaginian, I would definitely get Burning Drachens instead. You have in miniature the four planes you'll get in cards with Famous Aces, so why bother?

Burning drachens will get you heaps of other nifty stuff (not to mention more planes, albiet card planes) and you wont be lacking anything serious.


Thanks, Josh! That's what I'll do.

Karim

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TomRybak wrote:
Just be careful with the Roland and the D.H. 4 as not all have the same damage decks and one Roland has no rear gunner (the Richthofen one).


The damage deck variants are not so critical. If you know the stats for the variants you can easily play a different "pilot" with any of the minis, provided you have the right decks.

With the Roland it could make a difference though. If the two versions with a rear gunner have the rear firing arc on the base and the Richthofen doesn't then it could be difficult to proxy the Richthofen for one of the other Rolands. It would be much easier to play the Richthofen variant with one of the other models than vice versa.
 
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Richtofen's plane only has a rear arc. There is no forward gun on that one. I was confused about this also but when I got it, I could see clearly that it has only the rear gun.
 
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jrbentley wrote:
As far as "proxying" the planes I currently own for others, do I use the stats that are printed on the mini's bases or still use the stats on the cards in play, simply using the minis for "effect"...?


You'd just use the minis for aesthetic effect. Use the stats off the various plane cards or even just one of the spreadsheets online. It really only gets tricky to proxy the minis when the firing arc of the plane is different. (This is mainly true for the planes with rear arc. For example, the De Haviland D.H. 4 and the Roland C.II have rear arcs of different width.)

capadotia wrote:
Richtofen's plane only has a rear arc.
Wow, that's even more screwed up than I thought. So could you proxy one of the other Roland minis and just ignore the front firing arc?
 
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You could use the minis to play Canvas Eagles instead.....
Canvas Eagles
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Elstree wrote:
So could you proxy one of the other Roland minis and just ignore the front firing arc?


Exactly. The difference was that early planes (Richthofen's among them) did not have the front MG on the upper wing. So if you use a later one, ignore the front mg/the front arc and all is ok.
 
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Pitty you didn't buy the DE LUXE edition wich has four minies in it, but than maybe you didn't have that option.


But I gather from this Burning doesn't have any miniatures at all?
Hmm sort of explains the price.
Pitty that, I was really looking forward to baloons hovering about.

So what's there to say for buying that game?
I was allready considering buying it as an EXPANSION (that was the word I was looking for, would you believe I've been looking for it all day?)
but now that I learn there's no extra miniatures to have.
I'm starting to have my doubts.

Wich expansions have miniatures in them.
I do think it'll be a great game to play, but lets be honest, all them little planes are what make it special.
 
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