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Subject: Video exploration and review of Saikoro rss

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Scott Nicholson
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As an episode of Board Games with Scott, I did an 11-minute video all about Saikoro.

You can watch it at
http://www.boardgameswithscott.com/?p=84

or on Vimeo below:
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Wulf Corbett
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Good one, looks like a game a friend of mine would like.

Anything with dice, really...shake
 
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Corin A. Friesen
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Like ZÈRTZ, too.
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Peter Guthrie
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Am I wrong or does white still have a move when you said the game was over? It looks like he can move one right and two down to the 3 dice which is still within 6 spaces of black....
 
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David Molnar
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Seems to me that would entail moving over an empty space...
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Joe Kundlak
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Nice little filla' cool
And interesting too! Thx!

In fact, not that hard to make at home... devil


And hoping for a bigger game in your next review, Scott
 
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Tony Chen
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Better than Hey That's My Fish? No way.
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Joe Kundlak
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Sonja wrote:
Maybe Pandemic or Chinatown will be Scott's next review?

Pandemic would be great cool
 
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Scott Nicholson
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Joeyeti wrote:
Sonja wrote:
Maybe Pandemic or Chinatown will be Scott's next review?

Pandemic would be great cool


Pandemic has already been covered in video form by Colin at http://obsessedwithgaming.com/index.php?option=com_content&t...

One of the things we (the board video folks) do behind the scenes is try and not duplicate efforts. There's a wide world of games out there, so we share the games we are working on to avoid too much duplication. I know several of us want to do Agricola, so there will be multiple takes on that...as soon as the English version gets here!

So, while I like Pandemic, there's already a video out there to help folks understand it.
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Joe Kundlak
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snicholson wrote:

So, while I like Pandemic, there's already a video out there to help folks understand it.

Ok dok, will check that one!

Pray to the agri-gods then laugh
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Paul Edels
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Actually I made dozens of prototypes for this game and they cost me a lot more than the £20 the game costs (and took hours to make). Not sure there are any retailers with this game in your area, so maybe it's worth a shot?

I sell it on my site for £19.99 free UK delivery, and will deliver anywhere if you pay the difference in postage cost.

www.solbenk.com

Thanks, Paul
 
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Rustan Håkansson
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Good review, interesting casual game.

As presented it would probably not be suitable for me as a serious game though (tournament chess player). Reason is the possibility for complete reading of the game after a couple of turns. Players would need to be able to read to exactly the same depth and play fairly quickly, or with a chess timer. I'm interested in the extra rules, but cannot find a rulebook anywhere?
 
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Yoki Erdtman
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Nice review Scott, and a cute design Paul. Looks like a fun and quick abstract. I'm sure that the shaking of the box to create the dice matrix must bring smiles to lots of people.
 
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Paul Edels
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This game is now available through my website with delivery to any address in Europe or North America:

www.solbenk.com - just click on 'SHOP'



Game costs

£19.99 including delivery to UK address

£23.00 including delivery to European address

£25.00 including delivery to North American address
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Rob D
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One thing I noticed about this game is that the dice "shuffling" method doesn't really seem to work that well. I paused the video to verify and looked at a small area of dice; after Scott shook up the board I paused again and the dice were almost all the same in that area. This would seem to take away some of the replayability. Of course that's just one quick observation. Maybe it just takes more shaking.
 
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Scott Nicholson
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budsticky wrote:
One thing I noticed about this game is that the dice "shuffling" method doesn't really seem to work that well. I paused the video to verify and looked at a small area of dice; after Scott shook up the board I paused again and the dice were almost all the same in that area. This would seem to take away some of the replayability. Of course that's just one quick observation. Maybe it just takes more shaking.


The rules suggest to shake for 5 seconds, but that doesn't make for good video...
 
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Paul Edels
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Hi Rob,

As Scott suggests, a longer shake will have a greater effect on the movement of the dice. I accept that this element can be improved, and will be for the next production run (assuming I can sell the games I have in stock), but it is not crucial either to the game itself, or the concept of creating a different playing area for every game.

Firstly, I have played many games where we start with a set pattern of numbers, and repley the game several times from the same starting point (you learn a lot about the strategic side of the game from this). Secondly, when playing 'for fun' I usually just drop the dice back in and start the next game. This is random enough for me and my friends. For a more competetive match, I would suggest setting an agreed length of time to shake eg 5 or 10 seconds, and shake in all directions.

Due to the nature of movement in this game, altering a small proportion of the numbers (eg 15% which is about 10) has a big effect on the outcome of the game, but like chess, it is sometimes preferable to play again and again from the same starting point anyway.

Paul
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Bob Marso
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Hey Paul. Scott's video review mentions a couple other rule sets that are included.

Will you share those with us?



Bob



 
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Paul Edels
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Hi Bob,

It was after a games convention in UK where several people told me that they had played a different game on the Saikoro board that I decided to put a couple of alternative games in the standard rules that come with the game. I then had the idea of asking the board game public to come up with more alternative game suggestions, with the best (in my opinion) being printed in the next edition of the rules. Just waiting until the game becomes a bit more popular before I do this.

The 2 alt games in the rule book are firstly a game where by you are trying to block your own piece (not your opponent's), and where you have to make a move if you have a legal move available. The second alt game starts with no dice on the board, just the player pieces. Players take turns to roll one die, and then move their piece that number of spaces on the board (following all other standard rules). The rolled die is then placed in the hole that the player's piece has just vacated. The die placed on the board is effectively a wall, and cannot be passed by the player's piece. The object is to block your opponent by building a wall around them.

Other versions include one where 1 die is rolled before the game, and all dice on the board with the same number as that rolled are removed. Another requires a pen and paper to record the value of the dice removed from the board (you can either play that the highest score or lowest score wins).

I could go on..........
 
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Scott Smith
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Just a quick point of reference--the starting positions are fixed on the board. The only thing you are randomizing is the sides of the dice matrix.
budsticky wrote:
One thing I noticed about this game is that the dice "shuffling" method doesn't really seem to work that well. I paused the video to verify and looked at a small area of dice; after Scott shook up the board I paused again and the dice were almost all the same in that area. This would seem to take away some of the replayability. Of course that's just one quick observation. Maybe it just takes more shaking.
 
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Stefan Lopuszanski
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Scott cheated at one point in the video! At 6:40 he counts incorrectly... but I'm sure his opponent (himself) doesn't mind!

Also, to the designer, I'd suggest you include something to put the dice in (like a bag) so they don't get lost. Also, I'd put in some variable things, like some places that have higher number dice or something that spices it up more (although I guess I'm just not a big abstract games fan and like little twists in my games).
 
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Alex Warner
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This game looks intriguing to me and I really want a copy.

Unfortunately at the price for purchase plus shipping to the US (25 x roughly 1.5 = 37.50) I won't. It is simply too expensive as a US consumer to buy for a game made out of readily obtainable components 64 dice (at .20 to .25 a piece) is 16$ (and this is generous as it isn't unusual to find the dice in larger set packs for even cheaper, 100 for 12$ for instance).

Please try to find a US distributor interested in the game.
 
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Scott Nicholson
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AlexWar wrote:
This game looks intriguing to me and I really want a copy.

Unfortunately at the price for purchase plus shipping to the US (25 x roughly 1.5 = 37.50) I won't. It is simply too expensive as a US consumer to buy for a game made out of readily obtainable components 64 dice (at .20 to .25 a piece) is 16$ (and this is generous as it isn't unusual to find the dice in larger set packs for even cheaper, 100 for 12$ for instance).

Please try to find a US distributor interested in the game.


While I'm not the designer or the publisher, as someone who has designed a game, I'd like to encourage you to think a little bit about the business.

There are a lot of people whose efforts went into the creation of the game. There's the person who designed the game, and the process of this took several years, to be sure, to test and refine. There's someone who designed the box; in this case, the box is an integral part of the game to make it work. A graphic artist had to lay out the rules and the box. A publisher had to print the materials, and this game has a very complex box, which I'm sure was quite expensive. Someone had to assemble everything, and then they had to ship it to the distributor.

Now, in order for the distribution chain to work and the game to be able to be sold in game shops, the publisher has to be able to sell the game to the distributor for about half of the cost of the game. So, putting that in your model, that means $12 of your cost goes to dice, which only leaves about $5 for the custom-made box, not to mention any payment for the designer or artists involved.

The rest of the 50% goes to that distribution chain. If you buy the game direct from the publisher, then the publisher makes a lot more off the game.

All that aside...

When you purchase a game, you are supporting the specialty game hobby, which is not made up of many people. It's akin to supporting your local farmers or local craftsman; the cost will be more, but your dollars are making a difference.

Hasbro is happy to make millions of copies of Monopoly and charge $14.99 for it, but if we want to continue to have interesting game offers from the smaller presses, we need to support them.

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Alex Warner
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I agree for the need to support the hobby. Unfortunately the high price of this game for US customers is due to a not very favorable currency conversion rate and large shipping costs due to the publisher/designer not having US distribution.

Frankly the 40$ I would spend on a specialty hobbyist board game from Fantasy Flight, Gamesworkshop, Days of Wonder, etc. arguably contributes just as much to the support of the hobby as buying a game distributed and published by one person. The only difference is when I buy from larger companies like that they are able to offer me more value for my money in the components and far better distribution (if I can go pick it up at my local brick and mortar I'm arguably doing even more to keep the hobby alive).

I found your review helpful. I think the game is interesting, I just hope the publisher/designer decides to get better distribution in the US.
 
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Dean Hill
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Just received today and have enjoyed already. 6 plays tonight, good job with the design.

Cheers
 
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