Douglas S
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi,
Situations and questions


Scenario 1- Pirate and KC are in Sea Area A. Pirate wants to move to sea area B, KC tries to intercept....upon a pirate successfully evading this KC, does he still get to move to area B or has he been stopped cold in Area A?


Scenario 2- Pirate is in Area A. KC in in area C. Both are adjacent to Area B. C is also adjacent to A. IF the KC moved into area A, could he stop the pirate in A from going to area B if the pirate evades successfully?

If the KC moved into area B after the pirate moved into that area....would a successful pirate evasion force it back into area A? (This one i'm 99 % sure is a No..but i thought i'd ask anyway to get it out there)

-Doug
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Those are strange questions

The logical answer (to me at least) is that succesfully running away from a kc should never stop movement. Unless the KC is succesful in catching the pirate, why should the pirate stop?

-Jorge
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Black
msg tools
mb
Good questions.

From the Official rule clarification: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/315443

Quote:
If the pirate chooses to run, he abandons his intended action.


These rules are not specific on what action the pirate intends. So they must also cover the 'move' action.

Given these rule changes:
Scenario 1 the pirate is stopped in Area A.
Scenario 2 the pirate is stopped from entering Area B.

That is of course if the Pirate attempts to evade the KC.

If at any point (whether the pirate attempts evade or not) the Pirate and KC engage the Pirate can continue with their action.

Edit: Though this is the case for the rules that are given I'm not sure it is the intent. I can see how evading 'running away' could stop moving to ports, merchants etc. I can't see how it should stop moving into adjacent sea areas - that seems broken (as KC's could essentially trap pirates).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
The KC attemps hs actions when the Pirate announces or starts to move his pirate (or do one of the other actions that "triggers" a KC).

In scenario 1, the KC would only stop the Pirate if it successfully intercepts it. So the KC would stay in A while the Pirate moves to B.

In scenario 2, I would thik the KC has the option to either intercept the Pirate in A or C but must announce which. If he successfully interecepts, it should be dealt with in the sea area that was announced byt he KC. If the intercept failed, then the KC would be in whichever sea area he declared while the pirate sailed safely to area C.

But this may be part of the talks going on to change rules that I haven't followed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think this is an example of asking for too much clarification. Of course, I too want to play the game by the rules as intended by the designers, but frankly, it'd never would have occurred to me to ask these questions. Common sense (to me) dictates a very logical answer...

In this case, I think when Richard and Neil changed the rules so running away from a KC would stop you from looting a merchant, they just didn't think of all the implications that change would have...

In the case of looting it's clear, in the case of attacking a port it may be clear too, but in the case of moving I'd say if you outrun the KC, then you can freely move wherever you want. After all, you were faster than him...

-Jorge
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Black
msg tools
mb
You can't just pick and choose rules

It's a valid question.

I don't think it was intended to affect movement into other sea regions. think it should affect movement into port!?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Groth
United States
Appleton
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

If you evade a KC or Warship, your action is cancelled, no matter what the action would have been.

Evading a KC seems to involve sailing away, so I know it must seem odd that a pirate that successfully evades a KC (or warship) would not be able to sail away, but think of it this way:
If you are evading a another ship you can't sail openly on your original intended course, toward your desired destination. Evading actually involves sailing on an unexpected course far enough to get out of sight, whether over the horizon, behind an island, or into a fog bank. So it takes you out of your way, and therefore slows you down, enough that you do not reach your intended destination as planned.

Scenario 1: if the intercept fails, and the pirate evades the KC, then the pirate is still in area A. (if the KC does successfully intercept, or th epirat choosed not to evade, then they battle, and the pirate must move to area B as declared if he wins the battle and survives)

Scenario 2: if the KC moves from area C to area A to intercept, the intercept is resolved there, so the pirate would be prevented from moving if he evades the KC. He must move to area B if he battles the KC and survives.

If the KC instead chooses to move from area C to area B to intercept, then the intercept is resolved in area B. The pirate arrives in area B no matter what, even if he then chooses to battle or if he manages to evade the KC. After all, he didn't have to evade the KC until he got to area B.

Edited because I originally started to agree with Brian, but then realized that this is not exactly the same as Brian had written. The difference is subtle but I think the difference is important.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Doum
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have already asked these questions on CSW, but no answers yet.

I think it best the Jorge is right. A Pirate attempting a Move action will complete the Move if he evades the intercept. Although that is not the way the rule reads now.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Groth
United States
Appleton
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Allen,
Take a look just above at the post I was editing while you just posted.

I think there is a good case to be made that a pirate that successfully evades a KC or warship does NOT get to travel as intended. This is also what the rules state, after the recent amendment.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Doum
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tradewinds Ted wrote:

Allen,
Take a look just above at the post I was editing while you just posted.

I think there is a good case to be made that a pirate that successfully evades a KC or warship does NOT get to travel as intended. This is also what the rules state, after the recent amendment.

I saw it. and I agree that is what the current ruling is.

I just think that this needs to be looked at more. Particularly if the pirate is intercepted in the area he has moving to, or if he was moving out of a port.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Neil Randall
Canada
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmb
Yes, it needs another look. I'll be at Monstercon with Richard this week. He and I will try to get together to answer any outstanding questions.

This is, by the way, why quick rule changes are usually a bad idea.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Black
msg tools
mb
One more quick question..

If the pirate tries to run... and the KC intercepts them anyway. Can they still perform the loot action?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fighting the warship also takes time, and in that case the movement can be completed. It makes sense that if you don't fight you can evade and resume your course. I seem to remember one turn as being a pretty long time anyway...

The loot action is canceled because you have to leave the merchant in order to run away. It's only logical he gets to escape.

-Jorge
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Black
msg tools
mb
What you say is logical but breaks the rules as they're currently worded.

We should get the rules clarified. Which is the whole point of these threads...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the best solution is to just end actions where the opportunity would be missed if you fled: find/loot/convert merchant ships. Even move to port shouldn't be a problem

If we take into account that a turn is about a year game time ( http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/307521 ) it makes more sense to just let the pirate complete move actions when succesfully fleeing from a KC

-Jorge
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Neil Randall
Canada
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmb
jovincen wrote:
What you say is logical but breaks the rules as they're currently worded.

We should get the rules clarified. Which is the whole point of these threads...


Yep - will clarify as soon as we can.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Groth
United States
Appleton
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Please take a look at the suggestion I posted earlier today in the thread about the official rules change
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/315443

Basically, I would keep the current situation that a pirate evading a KC intercept would lose the move action, BUT I would suggest a rule change to prevent the KC from attempting to intercept a pirate on the exact same repeated action during the same turn. This would mean that when a pirate would have the opportunity to escape, if he has more actions that turn, but he would have been delayed by taking evasive action. I really like the feel of this fix, so please consider it.

Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jack Black
msg tools
mb
Personally I don't like this for the following reasons:

* The simple rule that allows a KC to intercept on any action the pirate makes is now a complex rule. Would this rule also affect warships?

* Realistically it makes no sense... The 2nd attempt is automatically successful?

It would be much clearer if Move actions are not canceled when the intercept fails, all other actions are. The KC's intercept rule is already complex so this added case is not a problem - there is no increase in complexity.



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm with Jack. We played yesterday and changed the rule so move actions wouldn't be canceled by fleeing. It's already bad enough you have to fight to take an action, especially if you're pirate is still weak. A faster ship should be able to flee and move to another are without problems. Two actions is just too big a delay. This way, the warships and KCs become very effective driving away pirates from rich merchant zones...

-Jorge
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Douglas S
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
maka wrote:
I'm with Jack. We played yesterday and changed the rule so move actions wouldn't be canceled by fleeing. It's already bad enough you have to fight to take an action, especially if you're pirate is still weak. A faster ship should be able to flee and move to another are without problems. Two actions is just too big a delay. This way, the warships and KCs become very effective driving away pirates from rich merchant zones...

-Jorge


I'm aboard on the move actions can't be cancelled by fleeing/evading rule!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allen Doum
United States
Orange County
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Issues raised in this thread have been address here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/318090
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Groth
United States
Appleton
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I want to say thanks for the rules updates.

I know that I was arguing that a pirate logically should lose a move action when escaping (evading) a KC, but I am OK with the move action NOT being cancelled, now that the rule has been made clear and final. I expect it wil work better in the game that way, especially since KC's are even more lethal with KC reactions!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ted Groth
United States
Appleton
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I want to say thanks for the rules updates.

I know that I was arguing that a pirate logically should lose a move action when escaping (evading) a KC, but I am OK with the move action NOT being cancelled, now that the rule has been made clear and final. I expect it wil work better in the game that way, especially since KC's are even more lethal with KC reactions!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.