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Subject: Poll Suggestion: (3) the Passive Win factor rss

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Olivier N.
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This is the third poll, I suggest to add
to every "Game Information".


The "Passive Win Factor"
========================

Sometimes you just let the game go,
don't take the slightest risk nor decision and
you can still win at the end.

a. totally true:
I've done nothing and eventually win against elaborate strategies

b. once in a while:
with the help of real good luck, I might win
against elaborate strategies without doing anything

c. no way: either involve yourself or be prepared to loose
 
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J C Lawrence
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Again this is usually a function of the players rather than the game.
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Olivier N.
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@JC Lawrence:

This time, I don't understand why you say so.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough... Be indulgent about my broken english blush

What I meant is that with some games, playing dumb,
ie just fulfiling the turn requirements but never do any strategic moves,
can be a winning strategy (with or without of the help of a bit of luck).

That's what most people say against Ticket to Ride: The Card Game or Senji

For some game it's nearly impossible to win out of dumb play or plain luck,
at least when playing against a more involved/good opponent.

For example, try to win at Through the Desert, Medici vs Strozzi or Chess without thinking about what to do.
 
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J C Lawrence
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Rémido wrote:
What I meant is that with some games, playing dumb, ie just fulfiling the turn requirements but never do any strategic moves, can be a winning strategy (with or without of the help of a bit of luck).


If just fulfilling the turn requirements leads to victory, why can't it be a concious deliberate strategic decision?

Quote:
That's what most people say against Ticket to Ride: The Card Game or Senji


That's not my experience, certainly not with good players.

Quote:
For some game it's nearly impossible to win out of dumb play or plain luck, at least when playing against a more involved/good opponent.


Precisely. Poor players can let other players get away with murder. Good players don't.
 
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Russ Williams
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clearclaw wrote:
Again this is usually a function of the players rather than the game.


Yeah, except it can also be a function of how random the game is. The more random a game, the more likely someone who's not even trying to win can win. So in that sense, this poll seems redundant with a poll about the luck factor in a game. LCR and War are the highest possible luck (it's totally random who will win as there are no meaningful player decisions), and similarly you can easily passively win. Chess and Go are the lowest possible luck (all game events are direct results of the players' decisions), and you will never passively win against an even marginally competent player.
 
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Simon Lundström
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Now who are these five?
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I have to admit I don't really understand the main idea of a passive win. If the best way to win is to stay passive, then of course you stay passive. Do you mean games where risk-taking isn't awarded? In huge luck-games, that's a random factor. In low-luck games, it's just a matter of whether the risk-taking was cleverly thought through or just suicidal.
 
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Russ Williams
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I assume "passive win" means a game where it just doesn't matter much what you do. You can watch TV while you're playing and just make your moves without paying attention, and still win. Which basically sounds like a random game to me.
 
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Olivier N.
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It seems I haven't thought about it the correct way.
You are right, Russ, is a bit redundant with the "Bad Luck factor".
So we can drop this idea altogether...
Thanks!
 
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Georg D.
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Oh - I know at least one game which fullfills the requirement of 'you can win by doing nothing' perfectly: Kremlin
A friend of mine was talked in to play this game also she were very tired ('you don't need to do anything'). Well she took this serious, made her influence list and went home. about 1h after she went to bed the phone ringed 'You have won!' DD

Here the point is the secret goal you can choose by yourself. So if someone else has the same goal and plays good enough you don't need to do anything to fulfill your goal.
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Alan
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Imperial is another one that can be won without doing anything, at least at times. I saw this in the first (and, thus far, only) game I played. A friend of mine lost control of England and spent the next 1-1.5 hours just watching the game. Eventually he regained control of England, but the game ended within 30 min. He ended up winning due to his somewhat-diversified stock ownership.

When I hear the phrase "passive win," that's what comes to mind.
 
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J C Lawrence
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Alan Stern wrote:
Imperial is another one that can be won without doing anything, at least at times. I saw this in the first (and, thus far, only) game I played. A friend of mine lost control of England and spent the next 1-1.5 hours just watching the game. Eventually he regained control of England, but the game ended within 30 min. He ended up winning due to his somewhat-diversified stock ownership.


Locally several Imperial players fight hard to be in that position. More than a few games have been won by players that never controlled a country for the entire game. A country-less player can be quite active and can have significant influence over the board in what country then invest in and when. Their influence is indirect and rathr diffuse of course, but it is present.
 
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Russ Williams
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I have a vague memory of either winning or coming in second in a game of Jungle Speed in which I was very uninterested and never once tried to grab the totem. The details are hazy, for I try to block all memory of Jungle Speed from my mind.
 
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