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Subject: English wintering rss

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Peter Donnelly
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WEBMASTER: This is revised.

After studying version 1.1 of the rules and reading the FAQ and discussion at columbiagames.com, I am still somewhat confused about English wintering. Here's what I gather so far, and I stand to be corrected:

1. The English player has the choice of leaving Edward I on the map (note: not just "in Scotland" as the rules state), as long as he didn't do so in the previous turn.

2. If Edward remains on the map, all units (of any type) in the same zone remain there. There is no levy this year. This applies even if Edward is in the England zone.

3. If Edward is removed from the map (always the case with Edward II), he is put back in the levy pool along with any non-nobles in his zone that cannot be supported there under the normal rules.

4. If Edward is removed from the map, or if he winters outside England, any English troops in England are put back in the levy pool. Scottish troops can never winter in England.

The key point seems to be that England is treated just like any other zone, except that it will support no units in winter other than Edward I and his companions. Edward can't sit in England for a year, then move north and winter in Scotland the following year, because that counts as wintering "in Scotland" for two years in a row.
 
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Frank Vleugels
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Re:English wintering
SkookumPete (#3823),

What you say seems to be correct, after I read the FAQ.

We left the troops in England on the board during wintering because they were not in 'Scotland'. It wasn't clear to us that this means 'the board' including the England-zone.
So our pool was smaller and after a few years, this pool contained only the good units because the not-so-good units (strenght 3, Welsh and Irish) remained in England during the winter and were rarely used in combat.
 
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Garry Haggerty
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Re:English wintering
frwings (#3837),

Blocks in England always return to the pool unless Edward I is wintering there.
 
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Garry Haggerty
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Re:English wintering
SkookumPete (#3823),

Your summary matches my understanding of the rule (based on 1.1, the FAQ, and Jerry Taylor's Q&A on ConsimWorld).

I was going to suggest an amendment to your recap in item 2 (If Edward remains on the map, all units (of any type) in the same zone remain there...) with a note that English controlled nobles in Edward I's area would still have to return home, but now I'm not so sure!
 
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Garry Haggerty
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Re:English wintering
SkookumPete (#3823),

To reply to my reply, Jerry Taylor confirmed that Scots nobles that happen to be in Edward I's area when he winters on the board must still return home (per 7.1).

With that clarification in place, I believe SkookumPete's summary is utterly correct (i.e., it corresponds exactly to the way I play the game).

 
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Peter Donnelly
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Re:English wintering
G Haggerty (#3956),

Thanks for following up. Of course, I meant "any type" in the sense of "any type except nobles". I guess I was presuming that the nobles have all returned home before winter actually sets in.

Another small amendment: under point 1 of my original post, for "turn" read "year".
 
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Michael Novean
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Re:English wintering
G Haggerty (#3956),
I don't understand the reasoning behind interpretation of the rules. Why would anyone move Edward back to England? You'd lose the feudal levy and you'd be stuck trying to (again) bring Edward and a decent force out of England to strike the Scots on the next turn. I cannot see any reason why that would be a good tactical move. If the Edward piece was at low health, wouldn't it just make more sense to remove him from the board?
The 1.2 rules seem pretty clear that you are correct (with the on the mapboard highlighted in red in 7.3 + Q&A on Columbia website), I am just trying to figure out where leaving Edward in England would be a good move. I could consider it if he was never brought out of England on the previous turn but that'd be like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Why would you leave one of your best pieces idle?
What key piece of logic have I missed?
 
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Scott Timberg
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Re:English wintering
SkookumPete (#3823),

all of this is quite interesting, but how does it change with version 1.2 rules? i'm surprised that england is cleared out at the end of each winter; have not been playing that way.

and i assume this means if edward has, say, five troops with him, including pieces that would normally be removed from the board during winter or that would bust the castle rating, they can all stay with him?
 
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shumyum
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Re:English wintering
stimberg (#9097),

On the consimworld message board for this game, the designer very recently and unequivically said that Edward was not meant to winter in England (message #1227). No, it isn't explicitly stated where it should have been, but there are rules that strongly imply it elsewhere:

7.3 ...Edward II can never overwinter in Scotland
7.4 ...except when the English King has wintered in Scotland

Of course, you can play it however you want!
 
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Robert
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Re:English wintering
SkookumPete (#3823),

Edward I can only winter in Scotland. The 2004 Version 2.0 Rules clear this up.

Rule 7.4 reads, "If Edward I is in Scotland (but not in England), he may - but does not have to -stay in Scotland over the winter ... If he chooses not to spend the winter in Scotland, he returns to the English Replacement Pool."

Robert
 
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