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EuroFront II» Forums » General

Subject: EFII or EE? rss

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Pedro Santos
Portugal
Soa Pedro de Moel
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I need to decide which of these I am going to learn to play with my son.
Can anyone with some experience of both give any pointers? Complexity, Replayability, History, Entertainment etc.
Am I correct in assuming that knowing one of the component games (I have Eastfront) goes a long way to understanding the Eurofront system as a whole?
Any help would be much appreciated.
 
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john f stup
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hello, i have the rules to EE but haven't played it that way. but EF will go a long ways toward learning the basics of the system. most of the war is EF and WF but EE and master front adds complexity with rules to join all the fronts together with rules for minors and political and economic rules. and also for starting the war in 1939 in that the EF didn't start until 1941 and WF in 1944 and the med front not until after france fell. so it would be good to start with EF and then go to some more complexity with WF before you tackle EE. and after you play EF and WF you may not even bother with EE and then again you may want to jump right in. hope this helps.
replayability---very good
fun--- lots of
historical-----gives a good sense of
complexity----complex but with a good flow(not tedious)











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Mike Hoyt

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I have not played Europe Engulfed, but I have seen it played and my general impression is that is much simplier that EuroFront. It is a well regarded game, and might be better suited to your son (you don't mention his age). On the continium of Axis and Allies to FuroFront, I'd say Europe Engulfed lies closer to the former, but far enough along that it is not a simplistic game, there does appear to be meat there. FWIW.

EuroFront I do have some experience with. Like you (and the designer), I started with EastFront. EuroFront takes the basic HQ, Supply, Movement and Combat rules and adds things like sea invasions and diplomacy. It works quite well, and the fact that Craig was able to take an essentially land oriented system and expand it to include Western Europe and North Africa speaks volumes for both his abilities and the soundness of the original design.

I think EuroFront is a lot to digest, even with experience in EastFront. I think it pays off in a richer and deeper game than Europe Engulfed. So I think that is your decision criteria. EE will be simplier to learn, faster to play, and offer less depth. So, it comes down to what you like.
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john f stup
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damascus
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excuse me, i was wrongly comparing east front and eurofront. i have played europe engulfed many times and it is a fantastic game. EE is much more managable than eurofront. i love east front and west front alone and i'm sure that putting all the fronts together would be a bit tedious. but the rating you asked for i was applying to east front but those ratings would also pretty much apply to europe engulfed also. sometimes the over use of abbreviations on this site leaves me confused. must be my old age of 70.
 
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Pedro Santos
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Soa Pedro de Moel
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Thanks for the advice folks. It sounds like EE is more accessible, although we didn't find standalone Eastfront too hard.
 
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Kurt Keckley
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I play Europe Engulfed. It is heavy laden with political rules and there will be a lot of questions for first few times through. However the designer is very supportive and will answer your questions here at BGG or over at CSW.
 
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I have one more point of view to add here. As I see it, the main advantage of a block game is the fog of war it creates. To be able to actually use this ability there must be fairly few blocks in one area. The hex based EF functions well in this respect. In many places it does not work in EE, especially not on the eastern front. It´s not uncommon that you will find 10 or more blocks in the same area, since the areas are huge. To gather 10 "1-step" units in one area and 6 "4 step" in another to feint your enemy is extremely uncommon in our games.

EF with small areas and fewer units in each makes it more exciting in my book. I like the mechanic whereby one can achieve local breakthroughs and a defender is kept on his toes to keep the lines solid. Throwing more units into an area the size of Romania and keep the dice rolling just isn´t the same.

I want to be able to hinge my left flank on a river, while depending on the marsh to slow the enemy down on the right flank, to buy time and regroup my reserves around a city bracing for the next push. For me that minutiae makes EF areally great game.

If one is more interested in the strategic/political questions on how to allocate resources between sub, strategic bombing and land units, and isn´t bothered by some scripted events, EE is a good game.
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Ed Richardson
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I have played EE and found it to be an entertaining game, but not nearly as challenging or rewarding as Eurofront. We are currently playing our first game of Eurofront and I doubt we will ever play EE again (not a knock on EE, which is a fun game, but my gaming opponent and I are really enjoying the complexity of Eurofront). The hex gaming system, as opposed to the territory system used in EE, makes a huge difference in the amount of planning that you have to do when trying to take territory. Whereas EE tends to be a question of throwing massive amounts of troops at a single territroy, Eurofront involves a more readily identifiable "front" which is subject to breakthrough and forces you to be more creative on both offense and defense.

Eurofront takes quite a bit more time to play, but it looks like its replayability is almost limitless given the number of choices both players have to make in how to prosecute the war. It's ruined us for EE.
 
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