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Subject: Do As I Say... rss

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Ed Holzman
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So the patron saint of change wants pay equity for women, eh? How does he want to spin this tidbit? Let's see if the usual suspects can make us dizzy.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archi...

The most relevant details:
Quote:
The average pay for the 33 men on Obama's staff (who earned more than $23,000, the lowest annual salary paid for non-intern employees) was $59,207. The average pay for the 31 women on Obama's staff who earned more than $23,000 per year was $48,729.91. (The average pay for all 36 male employees on Obama's staff was $55,962; and the average pay for all 31 female employees was $48,729. The report indicated that Obama had only one paid intern during the period, who was a male.)

McCain, an Arizona senator, employed a total of 69 people during the reporting period ending in the fall of 2007, but 23 of them were interns. Of his non-intern employees, 30 were women and 16 were men. After excluding interns, the average pay for the 30 women on McCain's staff was $59,104.51. The 16 non-intern males in McCain's office, by comparison, were paid an average of $56,628.83.
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John So-And-So
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Bearcat89 wrote:
Let's see if the usual suspects can make us dizzy.


Any reason to believe that article is based in fact? Reliable media giant "CNS Cyber News Service" appears to have the scoop on this particular bombshell as far as I can tell. And the "data" link that I clicked on to see where they were getting their "data" from linked to.... the article itself. Much as if I were to do the following:

BEARCAT89 CALLS SELF AN EASY MARK FOR THE PARTY LINE (quote)

I'd say I'm a pretty poor reporter if I put that on my news site. Got a similar article from a reputable source? Or the same article, with facts?
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Ed Holzman
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CapAP, check.
pathirtle, check.
Where are MWChapel, hibikir, and Artaxerxes?
Ah, it's still early.

SPIN, SPIN, SPIN!

And here I thought that only the eevil Republicans had to deal with media bias.
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Marshall P.
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Koldfoot wrote:

Could admissions on global warming be far behind?


Well, Fox news has admitted it.

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Jorge Montero
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You called?

If the positions of men and women in the campaign are all similar in the end, I think it's despicable.

You'll see me spend more time attacking republican views that defending democrats. They tend to be way to the right of where I stand on most issues. If you look carefully, and have nothing better to do than cyberstalk me, you'll see that I prod democrats for caring more about their team winning than about having principles.
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Isaac Citrom
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I found the "data" mentioned in the article. The link here is a link to the table of contents of the actual report which is very very long and available through the GPO.

I also find the source dubious. Let's see if another news service reports this as well. That a news service makes stuff up outright is common in my experience.
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True Blue Jon
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We will never get true change if we keep voting for Democrats and Republicans.
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Isaac Citrom
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Pathirtle wrote:
Without knowing the employees' positions and qualifications, those numbers are meaningless.


That's not at all fair. Your response is precisely the attitude on the Right, whereas the type of calculation in the article is exactly the sort of generalized argumentation on these types of issues we see from the Left.

I have worked at over 2 dozen companies. In my little circle of the world, I can tell you that I have worked in places where it turned out that the more skilled and valued positins were held much more by men. As such, the average salary of men would of course be higher. And, that this was the case was not at all due to hiring bias.
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Isaac Citrom
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I just have to pick up this book from Amazon.com, Do As I Say, Not As I Do.
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Morgan Dontanville
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Bearcat89 wrote:

SPIN, SPIN, SPIN!


Can you clarify how asking for sources on an article that originally a spin piece is considered "Spinning"?
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Morgan Dontanville
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From the About Us page on CNSNews.com:

Quote:
Study after study by the Media Research Center, the parent organization of CNSNews.com, clearly demonstrate a liberal bias in many news outlets – bias by commission and bias by omission – that results in a frequent double-standard in editorial decisions on what constitutes "news."


From the About Us page on MRC.org:

Quote:
The mission of the Media Research Center is to bring balance to the news media. Leaders of America's conservative movement have long believed that within the national news media a strident liberal bias existed that influenced the public's understanding of critical issues. On October 1, 1987, a group of young determined conservatives set out to not only prove — through sound scientific research — that liberal bias in the media does exist and undermines traditional American values, but also to neutralize its impact on the American political scene. What they launched that fall is the now acclaimed — Media Research Center (MRC).
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Pathirtle wrote:
Without knowing the employees' positions and qualifications, those numbers are meaningless.


Which is the case with most arguments about undercompensated women in the workplace, in my experience.
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Jeff
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ejmowrer wrote:
Pathirtle wrote:
Without knowing the employees' positions and qualifications, those numbers are meaningless.


Which is the case with most arguments about undercompensated women in the workplace, in my experience.


Every time I've ever heard someone argue about women making less, they've qualified it by noting that the women and the men in question held the same positions.

But then again, qualifiers are probably yet another example of liberal bias and doublespeak.
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Morgan Dontanville
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Fixed:

ExcitingJeff wrote:

But then again, qualifiers are probably yet another example of liberal bias and doublespeak.


Why be specific?
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