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Heroscape Master Set: Rise of the Valkyrie» Forums » Rules

Subject: Minions of Utgar vs. Gladiatrons rss

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suPUR DUEper
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Oaky, so the Minions fly up to the Gladiatrons and want to overfly them.

The Minions special abilty says they can overfly opposing figures without bcoming engaged.
Gladiatrons special ability says that adjacent figures must stop and cannot move.

Which trumps? ("reality" would suggest that the Minions win.).

Also, similar situation. Say a figue is 7 levels above a Galdiatron but is also adjacent. Does the Galdiatron lock them down? Even though they can't attack each other?
 
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Tom Lynch
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The Gladiatron's cyberclaw ability states "All small or medium opponent's figures that enter or occupy a space adjacent to any Gladiatron may not move. Figures affected by the Cyberclaw cannot be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph."

The Minions special ability of flying loses out to the Cyberclaw. The same is true for special abilities like Ghost Walk and Disengage.

Quote:
Also, similar situation. Say a figue is 7 levels above a Galdiatron but is also adjacent. Does the Galdiatron lock them down? Even though they can't attack each other?


A strict reading of the card would seem to suggest yes, but according to the Hasbro FAQ Cyberclaw only affects figures that are engaged with a Gladiatron. A Gladiatron's height is 5, so any figure that was 5 or more levels above the Gladiatron would not be engaged with it and therefore doesn't have to stop for the Cyberclaw.
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suPUR DUEper
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Hi Tom,

Thanks for the reply.

I literally interpret the Gladiatrons card the way you do.

But using the FAQ as a guide and going back to the Minions, their special ability says they don't become engaged when passing over units.

Also, if I am not engaged when I am 7 levels above the Gladiatron, a Minion should be able to overfly because they are 70 (or 700) levels higher than the Gladiatron.

A connundrum to be sure.... Thoughts?



edit: typo
 
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Tom Lynch
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I just read the rule book on Engagement and adjacently again (Swarm of the Marro version, page 11). The rule states:

Quote:
A figure becomes engaged when it moves adjacent to an opponent's figure. Adjacentcy Exceptions: Most of the time, if a figure is next to another figure, they are adjacent. Here are the exceptions:

-If one figure's base is on a level equal to or higher than the height of the other figure, they are not adjacent and therefore not engaged.

-If an obstacle such as a ruin, stone wall or battlement is between two figures, both figures' heights must be higher than the obstacle to be engaged. If both figures' heights are lower than the obstacle, or only one figure's height is lower, they are not engaged.


Strangely enough, if the figure is 5 spaces or higher than the Gladiatron then they are not adjacent according to the rules and therefore not engaged. If the height is less than 5 then the Cyberclaw negates the Minions flying power that would normally prevent engagement. As soon as the Minion moves adjacent (as defined above) to the Gladiatron he becomes engaged because you have to check for adjacency after each hex of movement.
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suPUR DUEper
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Huh. Good catch going back to the rule book. I did not think to look for adjacency exceptions....

While I think there needs to be another adjacency exception for flyers, I certainly can't argue with the literal interpretation of the rule.

In this case (+5 levels) the Minion could walk past the Gladiatron, he just can't fly around him.... odd.
 
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suPUR DUEper
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I was just reading the ROTV rules. It seems that the rules are using adjacency for deciding who can attack (i.e. if you are not adjacent, you can't melee). As it pertains to flyers, they are assuming that at the end of movement the flyer lands (i.e. he can't hover).

This would explain why they don't have a flyer adjacency exception (i.e. if you had one, then you would always have to mark if a flyer had landed or was hovering).

Maybe the best way to think of it is that the flyer is just skimming right above the ground level...
 
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suPUR DUEper
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Over at Heroscapers.com they have a thread and the consensus is that flyers can pass over them unhindered.

http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=8594

Quote:

From a personal email with Rob Daviau, Feb '06:

Quote:
Flyers do not become adjacent when passing over a figure and, therefore, are not affected by the cyberclaw.

Commentary:
To that end, flying figures don't actually enter or occupy any spaces during their move except their starting and ending spaces (assuming they are flying for their entire move).

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Ted Conn
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As you two have surmised, the crux of the argument hinges on flying and adjacency. There was a forum thread on Heroscapers.com about this:
http://www.heroscapers.com/community/showthread.php?t=9602&h...

We have always played it that flying figures wouldn't be adjacent, as they can fly as high as they want, then land on their final hex. The rule "Figures affected by the Cyberclaw cannot be moved by any special power on an Army Card or Glyph." applies when a figure is adjacent...they are thereafter stuck. Great against ground troops, but worthless against flyers, as they aren't affected. Otherwise, what's the benefit of having flyers?!

Edit: You beat me to the punch.
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Tom Lynch
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Quote:
We have always played it that flying figures wouldn't be adjacent, as they can fly as high as they want, then land on their final hex.


This makes sense to me and I believe is the intention of the rules. This is how I am going to play it. Thanks.
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suPUR DUEper
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Tom and Ted,

Thanks for the help guys. Sorry I didn't reply sooner but I was out of town.

Regards,

Ted
 
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