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Subject: Turn Track Confusion rss

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Nick Pitman
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I think I have been missing a whole turn each game. Here is the problem:

- Although I can find no mention in the rules, it seems reasonable to assume that the Turn Marker is placed on the space marked Start on the Turn Track during setup.
- The final phase in each Turn is Advance Turn Marker. So at the end of Turn 1 the marker would move to the second space (after the Start space)
- At the end of Turn 2 it would move to the 3rd space and so on...
- This means that at the end of turn 6 it would move into the 7th space which contains the text 5 player end.


- To my mind if the marker moves onto the space that says 5 player end as the final action in a turn then the game is over. You would not start another turn.
- But this means that you have only played 6 turns. The rules state that a 5 player game lasts for 7 turns.

It does not make sense.

I can see a couple of simple workarounds for this (such as not putting the Turn Marker on the track at all until the end of the first turn), but it all seems a bit counter-intuitive. Am I the only one who has been ending their games a turn too early?

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Costas
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Perhaps it should have said "X player last turn" but that would have been a bit much for the circles.

A 6-player game lasts six turns.
A 5-player game lasts seven turns.
A 4-player game lasts eight turns.
A 3-player game lasts ten turns.


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Dave Kudzma
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Quote:
But this means that you have only played 6 turns. The rules state that a 5 player game lasts for 7 turns.

It does not make sense.


There's sense here, I just believe you are overthinking things.

The turn marker moves to the next space at the end of every round. This is skipped during the last round.

This means that, including the first space it started on, the turn marker has lain on 7 spaces in a 5 player game. You have therefore played 7 rounds.

Dunno how to make it more clear than that...wow
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Nick Pitman
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Thanks for the replies.

I understand now how many turns there should be in a game with x number of players.

The problem is that without this knowledge I think most people would play the same way as in my example. That is
- Start with the Turn Marker on the first space
- When, at the end of the turn, the marker moves on to the space "x player end" you stop the game and score.

Am I wrong?

 
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Michael Webb
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We've never had any problems with it, but your mileage obviously varies.
 
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Richard Young
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MonkeyMagic wrote:

Thanks for the replies.

I understand now how many turns there should be in a game with x number of players.

The problem is that without this knowledge I think most people would play the same way as in my example. That is
- Start with the Turn Marker on the first space
- When, at the end of the turn, the marker moves on to the space "x player end" you stop the game and score.

Am I wrong?

(Italics mine)

Yes, I think you are. Particularly about the part I've put in italics. I think most people would assume they've just put the turn marker on the seventh turn which will be the last in a five player game...
 
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Richard Irving
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Yes, it would been (slightly) less confusing if different spaces had been specified as "start" based on differing numbers of players with the game always ending on the same (final) space of the turn track.

That would have been too easy

 
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Michael Webb
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I think the reason I find it intuitive is because the marker starts on a circle, and you play a round with the marker on that circle. You then move it forward, play a round with the marker on that circle, and so on.

I can see the use of a functionality like Richard notes though, having the track start at a certain circle and always end at the same one.

It's difficult for me to see the game with fresh eyes at this point though, I've played it so much that all of the conventions are like second nature to me. My main awareness of oddities comes about when people make posts like this, so I'll file this potential confusion away and mention it as part of my explanation for newbies in the future
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Nick Pitman
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SouthernMan wrote:
I think you have just interpreted it one way and then have never had anyone to challenge you over it.

We have played this game dozens of times in our group over the last 5 years, with some of the guys probably playing at the odd convention, and we have never thought along those lines. We've always understood it to be that the marker indicates the last round of the game (i.e. game ends at the end of this round) - in fact, for myself, I have never even thought about the game lasting a certain number of turns depending on player numbers but always refer to the turn marker track when wanting to know how long left.


The sentence I have bolded is my interpretation too. Since moving the turn marker is officially the last action in the round then when it reaches the space with the 'x player end' text on it then that suggests to me that the game is over. If this occurred at the beginning of the round then I would expect to play through that whole round.

I think the way I would explain it to others would be either:
-When the turn murker lands on the 'x player end' spot you play to the end of the next round.
or
- The game ends immediately when you move the marker off the 'x player end' spot.
 
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Nick Pitman
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Just looked through my collection to see how other games in my collection work and made two interesting observations.

- Of the 142 games in my collection the only other one that seems to have a turn track for game length is Genoa

- The turn track works the same way that it does in Age of Steam. But the rules clearly state this: "When the starting player moves the round marker from the space that lists the number of players in the game, the game ends"

As others have suggested I just made an assumption about how the turn marker worked and got it wrong. While the rules provide you with the information to work this out I do feel it is not clear.

I wonder just how many other game rules I get wrong....


 
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Matt Musselman
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rri1 wrote:
Yes, it would been (slightly) less confusing if different spaces had been specified as "start" based on differing numbers of players with the game always ending on the same (final) space of the turn track.

That would have been too easy


All joking aside, this is the way I always play it, which prevents any player misunderstandings.

Place the turn marker on the correct player # to start the game, and then move towards START until it runs out of spaces. Much more clear in many ways (including being able to determine the number of remaining rounds from across the table, without having to read the player # fine print).
 
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