Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Lock 'n Load Tactical: Day of Heroes» Forums » Strategy

Subject: A Short Hop: Somali Strategy? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
M. Kirschenbaum
United States
College Park
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Anyone tried this one yet? I'm on turn 5 (of 7) and it's turning into a walkover for the Americans. The Somalis did manage to shoot down a Black Hawk ("We've got a Black Hawk down . . . ") but the American player has tremendous fire power at his disposal. The Somalis basically evaporate in Melee (Rangers go in at 3:1 plus modifiers on the die) so as long as the Rangers or Delts get past any Op Fire on the way in they can take any square they choose. Right now they're stomping across the city, blowing away everything in their path. I should mop up the victory squares in another turn or two.

The Somali set up is peculiar, basically giving the player a horizontal and a vertical axis to deploy units. I spread out along these, figuring a defense in depth would slow down the American advance while giving reinforcements time to materialize. My 1-3-4s and most of the leadership was in the best terrain I could find around the victory squares. That ain't working though. Thoughts?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. Kirschenbaum
United States
College Park
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Finished it up last night. And the Somalis pulled out a win!

A (very) lucky Melee roll bagged a Ranger squad and Leader; that's a total of 8 vps, which, for those keeping score at home, added to the 6 vps for the chopper meant the US was out of the game.

So one lesson is that the US vp threshold in the scenario is fragile: the most the American player can hope to earn is 12, which means that a Black Hawk down--particularly if crew/passengers are also lost--or a couple of bad melee's can spell disaster. But I'd still be interested in hearing from anyone who thinks they have something else for the Somalis to do in this one, besides holding on and hoping for some hot dice.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jayson Ng
United States
Dayton
OH
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I haven't played yet. But since US forces are so sensitive to casualties, I think it's more of a priority for the Somalis to concentrate on a unit and eliminate it. Instead of spreading out and delaying / shaking every US unit out there. Is this possible?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Langdon
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Adjacent attacks and defence in rubble work well for somalis, you do need to maximise your forces into an ambush at some point to at least achieve parity of firepower. I'd rather go for FP attacks up close than force melee, unless you have overwhelming force which can very occasionally happen. Use mobs to help bring in reinforcements(Human shield) and limit US fire arcs down certain roads. Make the US spot you as well and vice versa reveal their stacks by moving adjacent, mobs again are handy for this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Walker
United States
Henry
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
'65 Squad Level Combat in Vietnam. On Kickstarter!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Matt,

It was good meeting you at WBC, BTW.

I think everthing said here is germaine, and you make a good point aboit the fragility of the American VP. I did that to represent the huge disparity in casualties in the two sides. The Americans lost 17 servicemen (if I remember correctly), and the estimates for Somali casualties usually run over 1,000.

Melee, is rarely the Somali's first choice. In the first version of the game I didn't even allow Somalis to Melee, because there wasn't much evidence that they did. But the play testers talked me into it. Nevertheless, the fact that they need to pass a MC to even enter melee should be an indication of how unlikely I felt it was. There are, however, instances when they can be devasting in Melee. I 5 morale Somali Squad, with a 5-1 leader, can jump out of a building (+2 to the pre-Melee check) onto a Shaken Ranger Squad and completely turn around a scenario.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jayson Ng
United States
Dayton
OH
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Yup. I've been playing the game already and found that melee is the most dangerous thing a Somali player can do. Firing at point blank is the best strategy. The low firepower makes them a sure victim based on the melee odds. And there's no guarantee that the whole stack will charge. Mobs actually have a better melee factor. Based on the Black Hawk Down movie... it was a mob that eliminated the two delta snipers protecting the crashed helicopter.

Speaking of mobs, can a mob voluntarily enter a melee if the activation roll allows for full Somali player control? Or is the melee factor only used if the US squad enters the mob square and rolls a retaliation?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Walker
United States
Henry
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
'65 Squad Level Combat in Vietnam. On Kickstarter!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Speaking of mobs, can a mob voluntarily enter a melee if the activation roll allows for full Somali player control?


No, not as the rules are written. The last sentence in paragraph one of 13.1.7 reads, " Mobs cannot enter squares occupied by American units (smc, mmc, OR VEHICLES)." Nevertheless, We have started testing meaner mobs. Doing so makes the game a little easier for the Somali player and is a good balancing technique if the Somali player is inexperienced. Here's the rule:

13.1.7 Mobs

Optional Rule: If the Somali rolls a 5-6 on the Mob Activation and Dispersal Table when activating a Mob. The Somali player may move the Mob into Melee with any enemy unit in a Road within its movement range.

The Mob Melees normally as a 2FP unit. If the Mob is defeated, the American does NOT suffer a penalty for eliminating the Mob. After all, "the Somalis started it." Somali Melee-eligible units stacked with the Mob, may enter into the Melee with the Mob. Any unit doing so does NOT need to check morale before enetering Melee.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Atack
United States
Round Rock
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Matt,

I've played this scenario twice with both resulting in Somali wins.

The first ended pretty quickly with the Little Bird getting knocked out the turn after it entered. That was soon followed by the loss of a Ranger squad to some hot firing Somali RPGs (if I recall it was a stack with a leader, a 1FP squad, and the RPG). With those losses and two of the Delta Teams pretty well surrounded by Mobs I used the Hand-o-God to reset the map.

The second game came down to a melee in the last turn. Minimal US losses let me close in a grab several VP hexes, but I was unable to destroy a Somali squad in melee on the last possible US move (I think I lost by 1VP).

After several plays I've realized a few things for strategy :

Somali Mobs are the best APCs in LnL! When teamed with a Somali squad they can "transport" those guys right up to (adjacent) US units. Firing on them costs a VP, or needs the Delta Sniper to do his dirty work. The down side to this : when the Mob moves under US player control, I've had a few Somali squads sitting in the street. Exposed. And usually pretty dead.

US Helos are ruthless. I've used a Little Bird to demolish several Somali squads in a row. I generally pick RPG armed squads that have already moved or fired so that creates a game of cat-and-mouse. As a counter, I try and keep a Leader led squad with RPG lurking behind the main Somali defense, just waiting for that shot (keeping a squad back is no bad thing for the Somalis who never really seem to be short on troops).

Melee. Getting into melee is an easy decision for the US as it's tough to get beat. But getting into melee is where I am still timid at times (from other LnL games) as it always seems to give the Somalis at least 1 opportunity fire. While their FP is usually crap, the DRMs for moving or being adjacent can add up. As a result I've always tried to keep another US squad (one without a support weapon actually) in Overwatch to try and cover the rushing squad should it be Shaken (yeah - no brainer for a tactic, but necessary when the bum-rush of Somalis heads for the easy kill). As for getting the Somalis in the knife fight, I always try and get them into melee especially with a US squad that has yet to activate. I'll call it my Delay-With-Bodies tactics since it's usually costly in losses. Since so many of the scenarios are time sensative for the US, locking them up in melee or surrounding them where they have to melee can really slow the US tempo to a crawl.

In the end, I think this game can create a far more varied level of interaction than the other LnL games where there's a pretty conventional process of reducing / shaking the enemy then finishing him in close combat.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Walker
United States
Henry
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
'65 Squad Level Combat in Vietnam. On Kickstarter!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nice post, Pete.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Atack
United States
Round Rock
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Nice post, Pete.


Nice game, Mark. cool

--

Thankfully we have not seen a chorus of "this game is broke" since it can be so hard on the Americans! or maybe it's because we are all to embarassed of losing to the Somali mob?

I think what can be hard in playing these scenarios is that US Victory is on more of a razor's edge than most games I've played. The loss of a single squad (maybe in addition to a shaken squad) can easily derail a US attack. And to lose a Blackhawk, Little Bird, or vehicle, in most cases is the first warning of bad news to come.

Now none of that is to say you can't still pull off a win, but the difference between a steady push and the need to be ultra-aggressive really shows itself at that point (luckily the Delta and Ranger squads are just the guys to pull those moves off).

As a matter of preference is anyone found a general strategy they like with the US?

Spreading out does not seem to give many advantages as the Somalis can generally appear (sometimes randomly) from all points of the compass so stretching their line does not seem to be a consistently winning plan.

Massing FP with the US is as simple as just setting up your units with their plentiful SWs. But using it in a pure FP assault is slow, does not Shake units (to open quick attacks or force the Somalis into 'rally frenzy which can leave weak spots in the line), and in my experience does not outright eliminate squads (half squads yes) unless you commit what would seem to be too many US squads.

Squad rushes seem to be close to what needs to happen but can open you up to plentiful opportunity firing. Naturally you can move through buildings to gain some defensive ability (stacks with leaders work great for the "bypass"), but that can slow the rush down. Either way this is the risk-and-reward move. If you can swamp a portion of the line (tough as I think the Somalis set up second many times and can see your concentration) you can quickly head for the VP hexes, but hot dice can leave a trail of Shaken squads in the Mog.

Fire and movement - the hallmark of small units fighting, is what I seem to have become fixated on. Using one good firing stack to pummel a Somali hex and open things up for 2-3 other squads to rush past has worked well for me in terms of killing power, but my streak of Somali wins seems to say it ain't the best! This also seems to rely on the ability to Spot hexes on a fairly regular basis and can suffer when your leader is Ops Complete and the Somalis are laying low for the moment.

And since I've always been weak at using it... I know Smoke can be useful in here somewhere, but I always seem too be busy shooting and moving to use smoke as a force multiplier.

As an aside all the above comments are focused on the use of foot pure US units (supported with helos) as I've only played one scenario with US vehicles. And two of them are still burning on some damn city street now folded back up in the gamebox. cry
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jayson Ng
United States
Dayton
OH
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Well my 4 games so far resulted into US victories.
3x (Pakistani) Ambush scenario
1x Short Hop(?)

The "Little Bird" seems to be the deciding factor.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Langdon
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
Nice posts. I find the hardest part for the US is withdrawl off the map, the tailend units can have a real fight on their hands as they get progressively more outnumbered or even cut off. I do play with a few house rules, a random event per turn with some chrome effects and a slightly different somali deployment, basically giving them a small chance of entering all compass edges.

Helicopters can rule the game being 95% decisive and 5% disaster
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.